Brett Ethridge (00:03.47)
Pride goes before destruction and a haughty spirit before a fall. Proverbs 16, 18.
Brett Ethridge (00:13.806)
Got somebody shooting off guns in the background. it shouldn't, it shouldn't be, there's a guy. That's right. About once a month, once or twice a month, he'll do his target practice in his own backyard and it resonates across our field. So anyway, all right. I don't, I mean, I know of him, I think Melanie has met him. He's a relatively new addition to the neighborhood. He's a pilot, I think.
Perry (00:17.182)
Yeah, that'll be good for the Be Watchful episode is this in the background.
Perry (00:31.934)
Great. Do you know him?
Brett Ethridge (00:43.459)
There's a couple plots over.
But he's, you know, mentioned that he's very nowhere shooting anywhere near our fields or in the direction of where horses would be or anything like that. So he's Anyway, cool. All right. Rolling. Hello, Faithful Fathers and welcome to another episode of the Faithful Fatherhood podcast. I am Brett, joined by Perry. As always, Perry, how are you today?
Perry (00:56.434)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Perry (01:11.71)
I'm doing great brother, I hope you are.
Brett Ethridge (01:14.86)
I am, you know, it's a little bit warm here in East Tennessee and that raises the spirits for sure. And I'm excited to continue this conversation about the book that we started to kick off last, I hate just diving in and talking about weather. I'm gonna reset the whole thing. Roll it.
Perry (01:31.068)
Okay. Yeah.
Brett Ethridge (01:36.046)
Hello fit, that was like a lip smack to start the whole thing off.
Brett Ethridge (01:45.07)
That's pretty good. It's a good sound effect.
Perry (01:46.474)
Thanks.
Brett Ethridge (01:49.346)
All right.
Perry (01:51.114)
That's my grandma used to do, she'd whistle and hum at the same time.
Brett Ethridge (01:57.774)
Sounds like a UFO landing.
Perry (01:59.614)
Yeah. Beam me up, Scotty.
Brett Ethridge (02:04.174)
Hello, Faithful Fathers and welcome to another episode of the Faithful Fatherhood podcast. Excited to be with you today. I'm Brett, joined as always by Perry. Perry, how are you today?
Perry (02:13.374)
doing fantastic, brother. Spent a couple days working with my father-in-law on a job site and my hands are a little tender, but man, I'm doing great.
Brett Ethridge (02:22.542)
shows that you're working like a man. What we're going to talk about. Does that make you a man? Do you feel like more of a man now that you've been on a job site for the past 48 hours?
Perry (02:24.266)
That's right.
Perry (02:30.432)
you know, I'd like to say, no, it makes no difference at all, but honestly it kind of does. You know, it's like, man, yeah. I'm like on a job. So I'm all of a sudden I'm having these ideas of, okay, this thing keeps popping up on my social media. like the shelter Institute. I don't know if you've ever checked them out or not, but they'd make this beautiful like timber framed structures. And so their ads, you know, whatever the algorithm is saying, this is what we need to put in front of Perry.
Brett Ethridge (02:35.264)
It does. It absolutely does. Yeah.
Perry (02:56.594)
and I get sucked in, man. It's like, buy this little mini course and we'll teach you how to make sawhorses out of six by sixes. And you've got these beefcake sawhorses or we'll sign you up for the mini course. Sign up for the mini course and you can make the coolest mailbox post, you know, in your whole neighborhood. And I'm like, I'm thinking about maybe signing up for a couple of these mini courses and having one of my kids, you know, do the project with me. think it'd be kind of fun.
Brett Ethridge (03:21.74)
It would be fun. It would be a lot of fun. And actually, it's a good segue to one of the things that we'll talk about in this episode, I think. But no, there are very clearly delineated types of activities that men's bodies, our physical stature are just more designed for. And when you do those things, you feel like a bit of a man. About once a summer, maybe twice a summer, I get my chainsaw out. There's just maybe we have a storm and a tree goes down in the backyard. You feel...
You know, you feel good when you're doing that type of stuff. The question is whether or not your identity gets wrapped up in that stuff. And so we'll talk about that. In fact, by way of transition, we're going to continue the conversation. So the last episode we did, we kicked off a series, don't know how many episodes it's going to be in this series, but this is episode two of the series about a book called Stand Firm and Act Like Men by Jobi Martin. If you guys have grabbed a copy of that and are now reading along, we're going to be talking about chapter two today.
If you haven't grabbed a copy, we'll have a link in the notes below. It's just a really good book. It's been a fun conversation. So we went all over the place last time touching on lots of different aspects about what it means to be a man. What about being a true man lends itself to being good fathers, which of course is what we talk about a lot in this podcast. And we said that we were going to circle back in the next episode to talk specifically about some of the things that might come against us.
as men and what we need to be on guard for. And so that's what we're going to do. Again, it is going to be largely centered around chapter two, but as we always do, we talk about anything and everything the Holy Spirit puts on our hearts. so before we just sort of dive in, Perry, have you had any thoughts over the last however many days it's been since we last recorded as you've processed the book and our conversation and just what it means to stand firm and act like men?
Perry (05:12.564)
Yeah. So one of the things that's kind of came to mind as I've been reflecting on it is to like, stay trained and stay ready. You know, you being an athlete, me being a little bit athletic. you know, if you're not in the gym training regularly, then you're going to be off your athletic A game. You're not going to be at your peak physical condition. so
Kind of one of the things that's really been resonating on my heart lately, because I did take, I took a little bit of a hiatus from working out, going to the gym, lifting weights. I took a few years off from that, unfortunately, but the good news is I've been really consistent back in it for about the last 18 months or so. And it's just a different feeling of being physically ready, you know, to...
pick your kid up and throw him over your shoulder and run around or wrestle for a few minutes or your kid's like, Hey, I'll race you up the stairs. You get, you can race up the stairs. you're this physical readiness comes from the discipline of the day in and day out training. And so I, as I think about that in terms of spiritual manliness, I think about that training, daily that time following Christ.
that time listening to the leading of the Holy Spirit throughout the day, that time in the scriptures studying, growing, being challenged. And then of course, that the time that we spend as men, iron sharpening iron, you you and I doing this podcast together, our listeners taking part of this podcast. I'm part of a men's Bible study that we do in the mornings. And so really all those things have kind of been swirling around my mind.
And the metaphor or the likeness has been this physical preparedness and this physical training that the readiness happens in the day in and the day out. And then when things come, you're equipped for it. And I think spiritual manhood is the same. know, if we're doing the work, if we're preparing day in and day out, when the storms of life come, then we're anchored and we're grounded in Christ and we're grounded in our faith and we're grounded in that.
Brett Ethridge (07:20.334)
That's right.
Perry (07:34.474)
masculine maturity that comes from following Christ.
Brett Ethridge (07:39.438)
That's a good opening word, man. I think you're spot on and very well articulated. listened to a podcast. A lot of listeners will know that I'm a big Duke basketball fan went to Duke. And so I listened to this Duke basketball podcast and one of the co-hosts regularly says, and I'm probably going to butcher exactly how he says it, but basically you got to stay ready. So you ain't got to get ready so that when your number's called, you'll always be ready, you know, and that type of idea is usually talking about like the bench, right? So the starters are ready.
Perry (08:02.291)
Mm-hmm.
Brett Ethridge (08:07.458)
But if you're the sixth man on the bench, the seventh man on the bench, you got to be ready. You got to stay ready because you never know when your number is going to be called. And so that's what came to mind as you were talking about it. But it's exactly right. It's actually a perfect segue to what we're going to be talking about. Right. Because when are we most vulnerable? We're most vulnerable when we let our guard down. If you're on the wall and you fall asleep on the job, you think about Jesus as disciples falling asleep in the garden to get 70. Right. You let your guard down and all of sudden.
Perry (08:29.822)
Yeah.
Brett Ethridge (08:33.696)
You're vulnerable, the master is vulnerable in that case, whatever it is. And so it's a perfect way to sort of pick this up, right? So the underlying scripture, and we talked about this in the last episode that sort of pervades this book that is the of the source of the direction that this book goes is from 1 Corinthians 16 verses 13 and 14, and it says, be watchful.
Stand firm in the faith, act like men, which is what we're talking about. Be strong, let all that you do be done in love. And the very first part of that is be watchful. And that's what we're going to be talking about. It's what you're talking about there, Perry, is not only do we need to stay ready, we need to be vigilant, we need to be watchful. And chapter two picks up.
with a similar theme in 1 Peter 5 verses 6 through 10. I'll sort of pick it up a few verse or two in it says, sober minded, be watchful. Your adversary, the devil prowls around like a roaring lion seeking someone to devour, resist him from in your faith. And then it goes from there. And you asked me a question in the last episode that I sort of extrapolated on about how I feel like sometimes
I don't stay as vigilant as I should recognizing that we are in that battle, that we do have an enemy that seeks to steal, kill and destroy. And it's our job to be watchful. Sorry, had to swallow. And so the question though is what are we being on guard for? We want to stay perpetually ready.
But we need, think, even to go beyond just a general state of readiness and to specifically look for specific attacks. And that's what the author, Joby Martin, is talking about in this particular chapter. And it's what we want to talk about here in the rest of this episode. And I'll continue to summarize it for those of you who may not have read the book or read the chapter. And it's a really fascinating chapter, but basically he points to four and he adds a fifth thing.
Brett Ethridge (10:41.93)
that the devil uses to derail us, to attack us, to throw us off our game, to come at us as the devil that is prowling around like a roaring lion seeking somebody to devour. And so I'm just going to summarize them. And my first question to you, Perry, is going to be which of them immediately jumps out to you as, uh-oh, like this is an area where I maybe struggle a little bit more than the others. So the first one is pride.
Perry (10:57.098)
you
Brett Ethridge (11:09.324)
That comes for the very first part of 1 Peter 5 verse 6. says, yourselves therefore under the mighty hand of God. And it goes on with the rest of the verse that I just read. So pride is one of them. Worry is number two. Number three is laziness. If the enemy can keep us idle, lazy, how are we going to be powerful for our family? How are we going to do the things that we need to as men? Number four is isolation.
Right. Obviously, how do lions attack their prey? If you ever watched anything on the Discovery Channel, you recognize the lion picks off sort of the one that separates from the group and is most vulnerable apart from the pack. That's who the enemy goes after. And then the fifth one. So those are supported supported scripturally.
And then the fifth one that he, Jobie adds that he has seen time and time again derail men in particular and that the enemy uses to attack us as lust. Lust. So of those five and hopefully we'll touch on all of them. Maybe we'll settle on one or two. I don't know. We'll see where this goes. But for you, Perry, at first blush, which of those jumps out to you?
Perry (12:22.44)
You might be surprised at my answer, but laziness, laziness and lust are the two that are the first line of attack at me from the enemy. And then I feel like the second line of attack is isolation. So if I have not done a good job at staying watchful and being proactive and submitting myself to God in those attacks of laziness,
and lust, then I start to get a little depressed, discouraged, whatever. And then I will lean towards retreating towards isolation and just don't want to, I don't want to pursue the relationships with my friends. don't want to pursue my wife. You know, I don't, you know, whatever, if I'm in a discouraged state, then I will lean into that isolation. yeah, those are.
Brett Ethridge (13:19.669)
I think that's a natural.
natural human response to right what I'm picking up on there would be maybe an element of shame because if we fall short in lust or we fall short in laziness, we don't feel as good about ourselves. We feel some level of shame, perhaps and the natural response that I see that my younger kids in all the work that I've done talking with therapists and we've talked about that on the show in terms of trying to figure out some of some of the things my adopted boys are going through. It's called dissociation. You withdraw inward. You withdraw
you go internal and boom. So the picture I have is kill two birds with one stone, right? The enemy gets you with laziness or gets you with lust. And now he's got you with isolation. And now he's got you right where he wants you. So that's it. Yeah.
Perry (14:04.084)
Yeah, he's kicking you when you're down. You know that? It's that one, punch, the jab and then whoop, you know, the cross after it. Yeah.
Brett Ethridge (14:10.435)
Yeah.
Do you mind sharing? Does anything come to mind maybe specifically about how laziness perhaps first would be used against you? Times when you've slipped into it? How it manifests in your life? I think the more specific we can be, you know, it helps other men wonder if maybe it's an area where they struggle.
Perry (14:29.128)
Yeah, of course, I'll be happy to share that. So for me, my wife, as many of the listeners know, are business owners of over 20 years. And for such a long time, we set our sights and our horizon on working ourselves out of a job, working ourselves out of the day to day, the day to day of our business operations and kind of basically retiring early, being
you know, the owner of my time, the ultimate, to me, what feels like a big win in terms of the business side of life or the financial side of life or the worldly side of life is if you can own a business that works for you and your time is free, then that's a huge win. That's a, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And that's a different type of wealth.
Brett Ethridge (15:19.662)
That's a dream, right? That's what we're trying to accomplish, for sure.
Perry (15:28.326)
It took us a long time to figure it out, but Nancy and I finally, within the last two and a half or so years, have stepped into that reality, for the most part. You know, of course, sometimes things happen and I need to, you know, come back in and give some attention or whatever, but for the most part, that's where we are. And, but with that comes a, responsibility, and two,
Brett Ethridge (15:47.17)
With that...
Perry (15:54.3)
a greater challenge for me because it's like I had this dream and part of it was I was a little burnt out of the actual work of the business because we worked so many hours, so many years, so long. I was tired, burnt out and I just need, I was like, I've got to get out because I'm just so weary from exhaustion of this, cetera, et But on the front side of that goal, I thought,
retired early, ride my motorcycle every day, sleep in, do whatever I want. It doesn't matter. You know, that's kind of what I thought I was striving towards. And since then, I've really come to believe that that idea of leisure, the leisure retired life, I believe that to be a trap, you know, from the enemy. Like I don't think that there's a biblical
mandate for retirement and kickback and rest. And Jobe talks about that in this book, right? So I think for me, the challenge is overworking myself on the front side of that objective to the point of being so exhausted that when I did finally get the time off, I kicked back. Maybe I needed a little sabbatical or maybe I needed a season of rest, right? To recuperate and rejuvenate. But I don't think it needs to be this endless kickback.
with retirement of doing nothing in mind, of just riding my motorcycle or doing whatever every day. And so for me, was almost like a, I guess there could be a level of pride, because it's like, man, I'm not even 50 years old yet. man, we have this tiny business that doesn't really gross that much revenue. So there was a sense of pride of like, I retired before 50, we're doing it on this tiny little business.
And yet I have tons of free time. There's plenty of people I know that make, you know, seven figures a year and they don't own as much of their time as I own mine. And so I think there's probably, yeah, there's some element of pride there, but then also I think, I think I just had like a misjudged view of the bigger picture of how, you know, how the Lord wants to use my freed up schedule. And so,
Brett Ethridge (18:00.683)
huge distinction.
Perry (18:20.732)
Maybe it's, maybe it started another business, which we have done. run a charter company, know, JP and I do fishing in the summer and all that. But I think for me, laziness can sometimes come in.
because I don't have a huge demand on my time from my business right now. And so therefore it's easy for me to just go, cool, I can kick back a little bit today. I can just take it easy today. and then some of it is honestly also a little bit of a lack of direction and being like, well, what should I be doing with my time? I don't have this big new project that I'm working on right at the moment. And so it's like, I don't have that thing to...
really run into and pursue. And so that can kind of be a source that that lack of vision, I guess, could be a source for laziness to come in because I don't have some big, huge pressing thing to do. I don't know. That's kind of a rambling. I don't know if any of that makes sense or not.
Brett Ethridge (19:26.592)
It does. The last thing you said, I think is really important and begs the question, which is what constitutes a good use of our time? Because it's okay to have built certainly a lifestyle and a business that frees up a lot of your time. And in fact, that can absolutely be a fantastic outcome provided that you use that time appropriately. know, and I've known you for a while.
Perry (19:34.761)
Mm-hmm.
Brett Ethridge (19:56.806)
And if somebody asked me to use a thousand words to describe Perry Hughes, laziness wouldn't be on that list because I feel like at least I always see you doing stuff and working on things and repairing this and fixing that and traveling with this and working on this and so, you know, by all definitions, you're not
You're not sitting around on the couch watching sitcoms, eating potato chips in the middle of the afternoon, at least not that I'm aware of, And I'm going to circle this back then to sort of my perspective on this. I would say the same thing about me. The second my eyes pop open in the morning, I'm go, go, go, go, go all day long.
until my eyes mercifully close at the end of the day. And it's like, OK, I made it through that day just because of the season of life. And when you're a father and you have multiple kids and businesses and farm, there's not a lot of idle time. The question for me, though, is more, am I using my time the best way possible? Because if we're not lazy by worldly standards, are we lazy for the kingdom?
Are you using that time to invest in your kids, in your family as a father and all of those types of things? And so again, it comes back to the question of how do you define what an optimal or ideal use of time would be? And are those things connected with Kingdom Impact? And impacting your family, in my mind, would count.
Perry (21:12.275)
Yeah.
Brett Ethridge (21:39.694)
It doesn't mean you have to be busy working on a new business or, oh my gosh, I've got this business that's just churning cash for my family. I don't technically have to be working in it. I'm going to start another business. Well, really is starting another business the best use of your time or is reinvesting that time into traveling with your family and working on your kids with a project or on a project with your kids or whatever. So those are sort of personal questions asked, but it's sort of what's in the back of my mind.
Perry (21:57.29)
Sure.
Brett Ethridge (22:04.258)
Do you follow Tim Tebow? I think most people probably know who he is, but have you ever watched any his speeches or what he's doing with his ministry?
Perry (22:13.002)
I am aware of him, but I haven't spent much time following him. Yeah.
Brett Ethridge (22:17.186)
He's a really cool guy. just really have a lot of respect for him, at least what I know about him in terms of his public persona, but, you know, super talented Heisman Trophy winning college quarterback played in the NFL for a while. Parents were missionaries. And right now his mission is all about saving kids out of sex trafficking. That's his goal. It's his mission. It's what he's raising money for. It's what he's actively trying to do himself. And I listened to something he said just I think it was literally just last week.
And he said and other people have said it, but the way he articulated it was was particularly impactful to me. And basically what he said was my goal in life, my number one objective in life is to limp across the finish line to heaven. Absolutely exhausted, absolutely spent.
without a single shred of ability to look back and say, I wasted that moment where there was this time that I was idle. And to me, what he's saying is there wasn't a moment that I was intentionally being lazy. And to me, that sort of shifted my perspective. And so for me, after I provide for my family and fix the fences on my property and help my kids with their homework and all that type of stuff, do I open Instagram?
Perry (23:21.418)
Yeah.
Brett Ethridge (23:37.934)
Or do I go spend a little more time with my kids? Do I sit on social media or do I go?
volunteer with my church, you know, whatever, I'm sort of spitballing at this point. But to me, that's sort of my shift. wouldn't I didn't pick laziness for me just because I feel like I'm so so unbelievably busy all the time. I don't struggle with not having a work ethic or any of the things that would normally associate themselves with the word laziness. But I do think that maybe if I shift my perspective on what laziness means, it's more of a optimal use of your time. And I definitely think there are areas of my life that I can point to to say,
Perry (24:02.452)
Mm-hmm.
Brett Ethridge (24:16.296)
Is this actually the best use of my time, even if I'm being busy? Does make sense?
Perry (24:18.94)
Mm-hmm. Sure. Yeah, that does make a lot of sense. Yeah, and I think for me...
From the outside looking in, I don't appear to be a lazy person. But as I genuinely reflect at my heart, I do believe there is certainly some laziness there that the enemy wants to attack me at. Way more than pride. Way more than worry. Like worry is not at all.
I mean, it's...
Brett Ethridge (24:52.014)
But it is for me. let's go to me. That's my number one. So talk me off that ledge. Tell me why you don't worry and how I can not worry. I sort of joke, but let me me sort of the stage on that. And I think we should circle back to lust because I think lust is a conversation. I want to hear your perspective on that. When I read this, worry was was top of my list. And I think it's because and it's not something I necessarily have historically struggled with, but I have just been in a season where
Perry (24:54.834)
Yeah. Okay.
Perry (25:01.085)
Sure.
Perry (25:04.508)
Yeah, of course. Of course.
Brett Ethridge (25:21.42)
My eyes will pop open at 315 in the morning and I can't get back to sleep because my mind goes into worry mode about anything and everything. my gosh. Maybe I'm in a season where the finances are a little bit tighter. How are we going to pay the bills and my business is going the wrong direction and whatever. So financial worry, worry over my kids and some of the things that we're walking through as a family. How am I going to deal with such and such in the coming day? And that has I'm 40 at the time of this recording.
Perry (25:23.89)
Hmm
Perry (25:27.444)
Yeah.
Brett Ethridge (25:49.134)
actually, I don't even know how old I am 474847. Yeah, it's fun to not even know. So I'm like 47 years old. And it's probably I probably live 45 years of my life not worrying about anything. It's a more recent development. So why? Why is that? Why all of a sudden? The obvious answer is I've stopped looking to God is my rock. I mean, that's it, right? If
Perry (25:51.37)
That's fun, right? Yeah.
Perry (26:00.082)
Right. Okay.
Perry (26:15.336)
Right. Right.
Brett Ethridge (26:16.974)
If you trust him for your ultimate provision, for being able to take care of things, for being able to fight on your behalf and handle your problems and your issues, what is there to worry about? So clearly that's something I'm struggling with. It doesn't change the fact that it is something I'm struggling with. And here's how it manifests, though, right? Why is it an attack of the enemy? Why does worry matter? Well, because if I've been up since 3 15 and I wake up when my alarm goes off and I haven't slept and I'm bleary eyed and tired, how am I supposed to be effective for my family?
Perry (26:45.352)
Right. Yeah.
Brett Ethridge (26:47.306)
Or if my mind is constantly distracted by all the things that God's going to take care of anyway, how am I focusing on being a good father, providing for my family, being there for my kids, whatever it is. Right. So clearly that's why the enemy uses this as a tactic. Talk to me, Perry. How can I worry less? How can the men listening to this worry less? Why is it not something you struggle with?
Perry (27:07.592)
Yeah, a few things. One, I think I want to affirm your assessment of why that is. I completely agree with you that you are operating out of self-reliance when you worry versus operating out of a faithful dependence on God the Father.
Brett Ethridge (27:22.38)
Yeah, 100%. 100%.
Brett Ethridge (27:29.036)
Which by the way is a pride thing. The author, Joby, makes a clear distinction when he gets to number two, he said, by the way, number two, worry is very much connected with pride. Number one, I'm prideful. I think I can solve my own problems. No, I can't. But I think I can because I'm prideful and therefore I worry and have anxiety.
Perry (27:30.952)
Yeah. Yeah.
Perry (27:38.025)
Yeah.
Right, Yeah.
Yeah, so I literally caught myself the other day thanking God for my incompetence because it makes me more dependent on him.
Brett Ethridge (27:52.591)
you
Perry (27:57.834)
So yeah, good times.
Brett Ethridge (27:58.542)
That's really funny.
You
Perry (28:04.705)
But this is my favorite scripture about worry and I know that you know it in your mind because it's such a popular scripture. But my prayer for you and the listeners is that you'll know it in your soul, like in the depths of your heart. And it's in Matthew chapter 6 verse 25.
It's a little bit of a lengthy scripture, so bear with me, but it's so good.
Matthew 6 25. Therefore I tell you, do not be anxious about your life, what you will eat or what you will drink, nor about your body, what you will put on. Is not life more than food and the body more than clothing? Look at the birds of the air, they neither sow nor reap nor gather into barns, and yet your heavenly father feeds them. Are you not of more value than they? And which of you by being anxious can add a single hour to his span of life?
And why are you anxious about clothing? Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow. They neither toil nor spin. Yet I tell you, even Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these. But if God so clothes the grasses of the field, which today is alive and tomorrow is thrown into the oven, will he not much more clothe you? you of little faith.
Therefore do not be anxious saying, shall we eat or what shall we drink or what shall we wear? For the Gentiles seek after all these things and your heavenly Father knows that you need them all." And here's the the crux of the verses. But seek first the kingdom of God and His righteousness and all these things will be added to you.
Perry (30:02.376)
Therefore, do not be anxious about tomorrow, for tomorrow will be anxious for itself. Sufficient for the day is its own trouble." So, I love that verse because it reminds me that I'm God's kid.
And he completely takes care of the birds and the flowers, which are beautiful and they're a beautiful creation. And they speak towards his creativeness and his artistry and his magnificence and his, Magnificence, Magnif, how do you say that word? Magnificence, Magnificence. I said it right the first time. it speaks to all those things about who Yahweh is, but it's a reminder to me that
Brett Ethridge (30:35.566)
Magnificent.
Perry (30:46.484)
flowers are much less important than me, his kid. Christ didn't die for the flowers. The father didn't leave Jesus hanging on the cross so the flowers could look nice. He died for me.
I mean, what is there to worry about? And so I just look around at creation and I'm reminded of that verse. The birds don't worry. They're fed every day. The flowers don't worry. And look how beautiful they are. So that's kind of my go-to verse. And for whatever reason, the Lord has just blessed me with a faith that bolts up to that. More so than the average
Brett Ethridge (31:34.914)
He's blessed you with a faith.
Perry (31:37.566)
person, I think.
Brett Ethridge (31:38.37)
Yeah, that's a good way to put it giving glory to God for that aspect of who you are. He has blessed you with it, but you've you've internalized it and you walk it out in a way that.
I clearly am not and I think you pointed it out well in the beginning. I know those verses I practically could have quoted the verse almost word for word because I've tried to meditate it on it in the past. I love those verses. We've quoted those verses on this podcast in the past and yet somehow right now it must not be taking root at a deep level enough to where I have full trust, faith and confidence because here's the truth too. I can point back to history, the history of my life. He has always provided. He has always come through.
By proof of the very fact that I literally am still alive. Like I have not ever starved to death. At some point I've always had a meal. Even if my bank account is lower than it's ever been in my life, somehow I am not starving to death. He's always shown up. He's always provided. He's always been there for me and my family and so forth. So yeah, good stuff, Perry. I appreciate that. The final thing I would add to that just because it's something I have been sort of meditating on since reading this.
Perry (32:23.092)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Brett Ethridge (32:47.636)
It comes from page 71 if you're following along in the book, sort of the start of the second paragraph there. And he talks about something one of his pastors that he worked for said who called worry that anti-prayer. So worry is anti-prayer. Quote, if you pray, why worry? And if you worry, why pray?
Perry (33:03.69)
Mmm.
Brett Ethridge (33:14.2)
That kind of makes sense to me, right? So it's maybe the active manifestation of what you're saying. There's this internal knowing that God loves me, cares for me and will always provide for me because he loves me and cares for me even more than the lilies of the field. Got it. Check. But in this moment, maybe I feel worry creep up. Now it's time to pray. Now it's time to take an active role in this process. Let me pray because if I'm praying, why worry?
Perry (33:36.297)
Yeah.
Brett Ethridge (33:43.99)
Right. So that that sort of landed a little bit. And the final thing that I actually welcome your thoughts on this, I'm sharing this just because it was a really, really powerful question that my wife asked me earlier this week. And I'll pose it to you and then I'll pose it to the listeners in the context of what I just said, that prayer is the anti-worry. She said, Brett, are you a man of prayer or are you a man who prays?
Perry (33:44.19)
Yes.
Brett Ethridge (34:14.094)
I was like, wow, I don't know. What's the difference? Well, okay, grammatically there's a difference. What does it mean at a deep level? And I think even there too, I think I'm a man who does pray, but am I actually a man of prayer? And that's just a deep heart position where my first recourse, my first instinct is to go to God, to be in perpetual prayer, as the scripture says. And if I am, it's a lot harder to worry. So it becomes almost just this...
sort of evergreen heart position of prayer and if I'm constantly in that state because I'm a man of prayer then how can I worry? As opposed to just, my gosh I'm worried now I'm going to actually pray, okay so that's a good thing but how can I shift from being a man who prays to an actual man of prayer if I explain that well enough? What are your thoughts on that?
Perry (35:03.614)
Yeah, I love that question. And I think I think I'm both. I think I go back and forth. You know, think there's very many times in my life where I can identify as a man of prayer, that that is really just from the heart who I am. It's my go to. It's my knee jerk. It's my instant reaction of something happened. It's like, well, we're going to pray about that, you know, and that those are the times in my life where
Brett Ethridge (35:05.87)
Thank
Brett Ethridge (35:10.094)
Yeah, I think you are too.
Perry (35:33.227)
I'm dialed in, you know, it's really dialed in the walk. And then the other times where I think worry does have the place to come in is if I'm trying to figure something out on my own, you know, on my own strength. And then I kind of hit that brick wall and it's like, oh, worry about it, whatever. But then you can replace that worry with prayer. Like you said, I don't think you can be doing both at the same time.
There's not mental space for both worry and prayer. So yeah, I love that. I want to strive to be that man of prayer all the time. I'm not there yet, you know, but.
Brett Ethridge (36:18.414)
Yeah. I think that's well said, right? It's just, hey, something that's now on my radar, something to work towards, something to strive towards, at least sort of being conscious of it is the starting point. So we can all work towards that. Yeah. I like the way you said that. So, well, good. So maybe let's circle back a little bit to Lust as we wrap up this conversation. We talked about worry a lot. We talked about laziness a lot. Isolation came up as sort of a byproduct of...
Perry (36:26.538)
Mm-hmm.
Perry (36:30.59)
Yeah. Yeah.
Brett Ethridge (36:47.022)
us feeling attacked in any of the areas. By the way, isolation, I like the way you kick this whole thing off is to say, okay.
For me, I struggle with worry. Now I feel shame. Now I isolate. You struggle with laziness. You feel shame. You isolate. I struggle with pride. I feel shame. I isolate. So isolate sort of, I think, pervades that. The one thing I would just sort of point out, and maybe I'll ask you before we talk about lust, is there anything you would want to say about sort of the other two, the pride and the isolation? I do think the isolation piece, this is something I do well at sometimes, less well at at others. The idea here is just be surrounded by men, somebody you can have an honest conversation
Are you a part of a small group? you listen to podcasts? You and I get together. mean, for me, even just having this podcast, even just having a weekly or every other week, hopping on, having a conversation, connecting with you, being able to shoot you a text. Hey, brother, pray for me in this. Hey, brother, I'm struggling with this. Have somebody, men in your life that you can do that with. Don't go through life alone. If it's your spouse, open up. You should also have men even beyond your spouse that you can have some of these conversations with. So I'm not sure how deep we want to go on that, but I would just kind of give that encouragement.
Perry (37:45.694)
Yeah.
Brett Ethridge (37:52.672)
Any thoughts, kind of final thoughts on either Pride or isolation before we talk about that fifth one?
Perry (38:00.522)
No, I think like you said, it's just key to not be isolated and have brothers. Sometimes if I'm down or feeling shameful or whatever and I lean towards that isolation, it's because I don't want, you know, I don't want to peel back that curtain and be too vulnerable, you know, be too transparent. But I think if you got the right brothers in your life, then that's exactly when you can peel back that curtain and say, hey, man, I've really been struggling with this lately. Or hey, my heart's really heavy and burdened.
because of this or I'm feeling kind of depressed today because of that. I just wanted to say, what's up, man? Maybe think about me today, pray for me today, you know, whatever. And so the enemy knows that we're weaker when we're isolated, you know, like that analogy of the lion and the herd of whatever, the weak one that's fallen behind or, you know, but when you have a good tribe around you,
then when you're feeling weak, man, they'll put you in the middle and everybody's kind of surrounding you, protecting you and taking care of you. So that's a, it's a good analogy and it's a good sobering warning against isolation. And I think, I think you can be around people all day and still operate in isolation, if that makes sense, because you're not, you're not
You're not being real at a deeper level. You're not opening up to what's actually bothering you. You might have 40 coworkers. You might lead a team of a hundred people. You might be around people all day, but that doesn't mean you're operating in community and you're sharing your heart with other brothers that are going to share that burden with you just because you're around people. You know, doesn't have anything to do with the state of community that you're.
Spirit and your heart are operating under.
Perry (39:58.197)
Cause I mean, I can be around people all day and if I'm hurting, still put on a happy face, still be a good leader for my team, still be a good husband for my wife, still be a strong dad for my kids. Meanwhile, man, my heart is aching. And it's just like, as men, sometimes we just feel like we've got to be strong for everybody. just, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure. Yeah.
Brett Ethridge (39:58.371)
I agree.
Brett Ethridge (40:19.182)
Hey, Perry. Hey, Perry. That's pride. That's pride. Right. That's exactly what you said to me. Right. So if you feel like you have to put on the good face, it's pride that keeps us from being vulnerable with with other men. A lot of times.
Perry (40:31.634)
Mm-hmm, for sure. Yeah. Yeah, no doubt. Yeah, thanks for calling me out on that. That was great.
Brett Ethridge (40:36.568)
So anyway.
I mean, yeah, sorry about that, but.
Perry (40:43.836)
No, don't be sorry. That's what brothers do. That's awesome. Because if I don't recognize that as pride, then it's hard for me to confess, walk away from it, you know, but the more I can understand that as pride and understand it as the attack of the enemy, then cool. That helps me get on the right path to repenting from that and avoiding it. So it's awesome.
Brett Ethridge (41:03.448)
Yeah. And one of the things that I think is hardest to admit or be vulnerable about, especially with other men and or with our our wives would be lust if that's something that you struggle with. you know, Jobie added it on as his fifth. Like I said, he uses scripture to support the first four. The fifth, he says, man, this is just something that's so obvious to me because I see it derailing men all the time. So let's talk about it. Do you agree with him? How have you seen it?
derail men and maybe how has the enemy used it as an attack against you? You isolated or you highlighted it as sort of one of the two that jumped out for you personally. Just talk to us with some preliminary thoughts about lust as something we need to be watchful for as men on the wall.
Perry (41:46.9)
Sure.
Perry (41:52.127)
Yeah, 100%. I think, and maybe it's just cause I'm wired this way myself, but I think every man has got to be on major guard against lust because I mean, if my heart is beating and I mean, if I have a pulse, then I need to be on guard against lust. There's just that much reality of how I'm wired towards a propensity towards that sin. So
I think for me and I really didn't.
Process this until we're sitting here thinking about it But I said laziness and then lust are the first and then isolation is kind of a follow-up but I'd like to amend that and Say often I think laziness is the first and then lust is the follow-up And so I've real I'm realizing Eve just now even as we discuss laziness in his sense of am I using my time for the best purposes am I am I
doing what's best with my time. And if I get sucked into, like you said, I've checked off all my things, I'm done, what am I gonna do? Go sit down, relax, and open up Instagram, go sit down, relax, open up Facebook, go sit down, relax, and whatever.
I think it's in those moments of choosing laziness first that that opens the door to lust because that's how the enemy often attacks me in lust. A, if I'm tired, if I've been neglecting my sleep habits, then I know for sure I'm more susceptible towards those attacks, more vulnerable. And then two, I'm realizing as we speak that I think that if I've chosen
Perry (43:40.27)
less than optimal use of my time, then oftentimes that lust is gonna be a really quick follow-up. It's gonna be a really quick follow-up and it's that double whammy. So, yeah.
Brett Ethridge (43:47.438)
That's a insight. Yeah, it's a real good insight.
Brett Ethridge (43:52.856)
Yeah. Yeah. So and I'm going to ask you how can we guard against it? We want to be watchful. What proactively can and should we do to guard against it? But man, this is one I just think if you I'm going to answer my own question, I think he's spot on with this because you can say, OK, how does laziness derail you from kingdom purpose or impact purpose or being the father that you should be?
Okay, well, you could show some obvious things. Maybe you're not providing as much for your family because you can't hold down a job because you're lazy or whatever. so, okay, fine there. Worry. I talked about how worry, you know, it keeps me tired, whatever it is. I've distracted all those types of things. Man, lust, if you look at the state of the world today and the unbelievable disrepair that it's in, so much of it could be tied back to lust. You look at
The impact on kids from divorce. It's just a reality, right? A lot of times divorce is a result of lust issues that crept into a marriage and now all of sudden families are destroyed. You look at not to get political. It's not really political. It's just it's the evil in the world today. You look at all the Epstein stuff and Epstein file stuff and just families destroyed and societies destroyed and moral, the moral decay of our country and our world destroyed.
by the enemies inroads through lust, through our eyes, through our thoughts. And it's just it's just huge. It's just paramount. So clearly, obviously, we need to be on guard. How can we be on guard? How can we be watchful? And I would I would affirm you in this. You have talked a lot about this on the podcast, and I know it's something you're very proactive about guarding your eyes, guarding your thought life, deleting apps.
Perry (45:26.047)
Mm-hmm.
Brett Ethridge (45:44.672)
at various times, literally from your phone that might even open the door, the smallest little crack to temptation, talking to your sons about it on your coming of age trip. not to put words in your mouth, but I know these are things you've talked about and I affirm you as somebody who is constantly vigilant on this topic. Well done. But how do we do it as men? How are we watchful here?
Perry (46:06.868)
Sure, sure. So first off, I'll try to be succinct, but pray. And maybe you're even a guy who's like, is it really that big of a deal if I'm just looking but I don't touch? Is it really that bad? Well, yeah, scripture says it is. If you have looked at a woman lustfully, then it's the same as committing adultery. God judges the heart, not just the action. So I think a lot of us believe the lie. Look, don't touch. That's a lie.
Brett Ethridge (46:13.165)
Right, good.
Brett Ethridge (46:35.042)
Yeah, that's a lie. That's a lie.
Perry (46:35.816)
It's a lie straight from the enemy, straight from the pit of hell. It's false. It's not true. So maybe you're that guy listening to this podcast. The first thing you do is pray that God will give you truth, that he would uncover any lies that you might be believing about sexual purity and or lust, you know, and where the line of appropriateness is. Just pray for God's spirit to convict you. And that's step one. And maybe number one, you don't want to be convicted. Maybe you're like, well, I don't...
kind of like this, right? Sometimes I, if I don't have a heart towards godly things, sometimes my first prayer is, give me a heart after your own heart, because right now I don't even care. I don't even, I'm not even interested in that. I know I should be, but I'm not. So sometimes that's my first step of prayer is, God, align my heart with your heart. Help me want what you want for me. Okay? Yeah. Yeah.
Brett Ethridge (47:30.658)
And could I interject something there? I would say even before step one, I was like, yeah, I agree with his step one. I would actually back it up and say what you've already said, which is to acknowledge that it is something to be on guard about because if you have breath in your lungs as men, we should be on guard about it because I'll be honest, when I saw this list of five, I actually pridefully probably thought to myself, I don't actually struggle with lust.
That's a dangerous way to think. No, what I'm saying is I haven't cheated on my wife and I've never really had a porn addiction. Okay, fine, good. Am I patting myself on the back for that? But does that mean I've never looked at a woman who's not my wife and thought?
Perry (48:01.992)
Yes.
Brett Ethridge (48:15.34)
Wow, she's really attractive or whatever. Or I've never seen an image on Instagram that got my heart racing a little bit. No. So the point is, the second I'm so prideful that I don't think lust is an issue, that's a problem. So I'd say even before, and maybe that could be part of the prayer. The prayer is Lord, just help me stay vigilant. Like if I think lust isn't a problem, convict me of the fact that I still need to be on guard until I take my last breath. And I think you're exactly right about that, Then pray to have a heart like God's, then continue your thought.
Perry (48:29.62)
Yeah. Yeah.
Perry (48:39.774)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, 100%. That's a great clarification and an additional perspective. love that. So then I think another aspect is if you are somebody that's in the thick of struggling with a porn addiction or you're all of a sudden the Lord is convicting you that this you're out of line here, you've got to have a brother to partner with you and hold you accountable. Accountability partner.
years and years and years ago when I wasn't winning with my eyes and my heart attitude and my thoughts, that is one of the key steps that I took was having an accountability partner that if I slipped up and looked at a woman lustfully, I had to call and tell my friend. And that made a big difference. And there was a season of life where my wife caught me looking at somebody
Brett Ethridge (49:30.19)
Yeah, that's good.
Perry (49:39.113)
lustfully broke her heart. She felt cheated on, you know, all these things. And I made a commitment to say, Hey, if I slip in this area, I will come tell you. And I didn't want to break my heart. That was very hard. I didn't want to break my wife's heart again. And so that really helped me like toe the straight and narrow, you know? another thing that I love to do is pray.
Brett Ethridge (49:52.492)
for you. That's hard, very hard.
Perry (50:08.818)
Jesus fight for me. So if I'm in the midst of temptation and I know that I want to go look at this, you know Image that I shouldn't be looking at or I want to go to a website I shouldn't be going to But that draw that fleshly pull is like really strong in that direction. I'll times I'll pray Jesus fight for me Jesus fight for me and that the end the Lord comes in and rescues and there's never been a time when I've prayed that prayer that the Lord let me down not one single time in my entire life, so if all you can
take from this pod, the whole podcast is remembering the prayer. Jesus fight for me. That's a, that's a really strong and powerful prayer. I delete the apps off my phone. I put porn blocking software on my, just like I have for my teenage sons. have this, I have porn blocking software on my phone. I have an accountability partner that if I were to try to look at something, it's going to block me, but then it's also going to send an email to my friend that says, Hey, Perry,
you know, tried to look at this website or, whatever. So I create those boundaries from my own self, but I still, you know, I still am not perfect. There's still, you know, like I'll, I'll confess this reality that the Lord convicted me of the other day. We were watching a fast and furious movie and I've taught my sons, okay, let me backtrack. Every man's battle is a great book to read.
Every guy needs to go read that book, every man's battle, and it will really talk you through purity with your eyes and your heart, and it will really help you get through this struggle of lust that we all as men have a battle in front of us. One of the key takeaways I learned from that book was to bounce your eyes. Anytime you see anything, any image, any real life girl, a girl jogging, I mean a girl jogging down the street in her ponytail, swoosh.
Sometimes that's all it takes for me to just go, yeah, baby. Yeah. Well, so the guy, the author tells a story in his book where he's looking at this girl jogging and he's so captivated by her, he quits paying attention to he's doing and he rear ends the car in front of him. Yeah, cause he's checking this girl, this jogger out. But I can relate to that. I haven't rear ended anybody, but I can relate to just a girl in spandex with a swooshy ponytail going down the road. That has the challenge to
Brett Ethridge (52:08.206)
Yeah, turn on the next street.
Brett Ethridge (52:22.604)
natural consequences.
Yeah. Yeah.
Perry (52:35.166)
that has the potential to trip me up, you know, in terms of lust and purity. So I've learned the habit of bouncing my eyes. Anytime you, if you see something, bounce your eyes. If you're watching a movie, close your eyes. If you're, you know, whatever, bounce away, bounce away. If there's a magazine at the checkout line, bounce your eyes. If an Instagram thing pops up, bounce your eyes. Shut it down, whatever. Well, I've trained my teenage boys in this too, and I told them, watch me.
When we're sitting around watching movies as a family and something comes up, you look at me and see what I do. Well, we're watching Fast and the Furious X the other day, me and the boys and some of their friends, and it's a racing movie and it's super cheap. The quality of that movie is not good. The storyline's weak, you know, whatever, whatever, whatever. It's race car scenes. Well, there's one scene down in some Latin country or whatever, and it's all these girls in booty shorts.
dancing and shaking their butts and you know, whatever and the Holy Spirit prompted me to look away and I didn't
Fail. And then a few seconds after that, one of my teenage sons turns and looks at me and I'm still staring at the screen and I thought, ah, fail, fail. And I haven't gone back to him and talked to him about that and said, hey son, I let you down as a role model. I failed, I slipped. The girls were booty dancing and I was thinking, hey, that looks nice. Instead of bounce my eyes.
like the Holy Spirit was calling me to. I'm going to go to my son and confess that to him and apologize to him and say, hey, I'm just your dad. I'm not perfect. I'm just out here slipping and falling and picking myself back up again, too. I don't have it all figured out yet. I'm still working my way through living a life of sexual purity. But that's something normally that I've trained myself to bounce my eyes away from.
Perry (54:38.25)
whether it's an Instagram post or it's a movie scene or if it's a girl jogging down the street. Me and one of my buddies have a joke because some girl get out in spandex and instead of whistling to her or whatever that normal guys do, talk, put some clothes on, you know what mean? We were just kind of in a joke, in a joking way. Yeah, get out of here, you know? And we start mocking her to ourselves. We're not yelling at her, you know, but.
Brett Ethridge (54:38.702)
Yeah.
Brett Ethridge (54:54.272)
Yeah. I mean, does your dad know you went out like that? Yeah.
Perry (55:03.604)
We're like, God, what's wrong? You know, so it's kind of this standing joke, but it's a good reminder to not get swept up in lustful thinking because of girls in spandex pants. And they all, they run around like that all the time.
Brett Ethridge (55:17.262)
I appreciate the transparency on that story because it's incredibly relatable. What's important is that you are conscious of it to the point of, maybe I should circle back and talk to my son and you've trained him up and you want to be the role model. And that's really, think, really all we're striving for. And we all recognize we're going to fall short, which is exactly going back to what I said, which is I just have to acknowledge that I need to be on guard, that I need to be watchful, which is the whole point. Be watchful, men.
I'll just sort of end as we wrap this up with a little bit of a funny story. And it's going to be a borderline, you know, not explicit statement I'm about to make. I don't think I have to click the little E button for this episode. So I don't think you have to necessarily cover your kid's ears. But it speaks to what you're talking about. I think it's a good way to sort of frame the end of this discussion, especially about lust, but really with respect to everything. And I like your statement.
For me, it's just removing entirely from situations. I think I'm blessed in the sense that the Lord, I trust the Lord's goodness and the way that he has orchestrated my life in ways potentially to protect me from things that I might not know I need protecting from. And what I mean by that is, you know, I have been a solopreneur for so long.
that I almost don't remember what it's like to be around people. And so my days are basically spent with my family and nobody else. I don't even belong to a gym anymore. You know, I go down to my office and I sit in my office all day long, then I pick my kids up from school. I'm just around my kids and my family and stuff like that. And I remember. So this is the not explicit, but you the statement. So I was talking with my wife, I don't know, the other day, and she was telling me about so and so who just
just got divorced or got cheated on or something like that or maybe it was just something she saw online or whatever and she semi jokingly but semi seriously said you better never cheat on me if you ever cheat on me I'm gonna cut your balls off
Perry (57:29.002)
Ha ha ha.
Brett Ethridge (57:30.818)
And we kind of laughed and here's my response. said, I said, babe, who am I going to cheat on you with? Like, don't, I literally don't know any other women. I don't see anybody. don't, I'm not around anybody. I don't have coffee with anybody. don't, there's nobody at the office. I'm not at the water cooler with any other women. Like, who am I going to cheat on you with? And then the Holy Spirit convicted me. That's right. I put you in that position. I put you in that position. Don't go seeking it out though.
Perry (57:55.466)
Hmm.
Perry (58:00.125)
Yeah, that's right.
Brett Ethridge (58:00.408)
Don't go seeking it out. And men on the flip side of that. If you have a work colleague who your eyes wander to, get a new job. If you are like don't ever and my pastor once said this to me years ago, a different pastor, but he's like, I just have a rule with my wife. I'm never alone with another woman ever. If a congregate wants to come up and pick my brain or get counseling or whatever, I'm not meeting her one on one at Starbucks. I don't want rumors to spread. I don't want anything. So
Perry (58:20.042)
That's right.
Brett Ethridge (58:28.524)
So I think it all goes back to what you're saying. Bounce your eyes, bounce your body, men, sometimes. Guard our hearts and guard our eyes and be watchful. We are on the wall and we have an enemy seeking to seek, kill and destroy, prowling, looking to get at us. And so we need to be watchful in all these areas. So man, I've enjoyed this conversation. I hope you, the listeners, have found it helpful. Any final thoughts as we wrap up this episode?
Perry (58:39.304)
Yeah.
Perry (58:57.364)
Yeah, I want to give a couple of scriptures that lean in, that piggyback on what you were just saying. So James 4-7 says, submit yourselves therefore to God, resist the devil and he will flee from you. So the first step is submit yourself to God. The second step is resist the devil. And then the promise to that obedience.
is he will flee. And so I think it's easy sometimes for us as men to get sucked into that slippery slope. Well, you look a little bit longer. You don't bounce your eyes right away. You linger for a few minutes and then you bounce. Well, the next time around, you linger for a few more minutes. And it's just kind of this cascading effect of sliding down and changing the standards in the line. But the scripture says, submit yourself to God, resist the devil, and he will flee from you.
And so then it's like, well, if you say, I'm going to bounce my eyes right away and you start doing that, the devil flees. And then I want to make sure everybody knows Proverbs five. I'm not going to read the whole thing, but go check out Proverbs five one day this week as you're studying scriptures and chat verse eight is talking about basically the forbidden woman.
Verse 3, for the lips of a forbidden woman drip honey, and her speech is smoother than oil, but in the end she is bitter as wormwood, sharp as a two-edged sword. Her feet go down to death. Okay, and then it skips down in a few more verses later. Verse 8 says, keep your way far from her, and do not go near the door of her house. Stay far away.
Don't go near her house. So that's my encouragement. When you were talking, yeah, yeah. You were saying like, hey, if there's a woman at your workplace, get a new job, get, get moved to a different branch of the company, go far away. Like stay far away from that.
Brett Ethridge (01:00:58.06)
Yeah. Take the long way.
Brett Ethridge (01:01:13.262)
Good stuff. We'll end it there. Ending on God's word is always a good place to end it. So men, check your feed. We'll be back with you again with some more conversation around this book, Stand Firm and Act Like Men. I hope you have been blessed. I know I have. We appreciate you guys as always for giving of your time. You could be doing anything and you have chosen to engage in fatherhood.
Engage in bettering ourselves as men as followers of Christ as fathers for our family. So well done to you Perry good talking with always and we will see you guys talk with you again on the next episode of the faithful fatherhood podcast Take care everyone
Brett Ethridge (01:01:56.366)
I'm seven minutes late for this call with our lawyer. I'll talk to you later.
Perry (01:01:58.247)
yeah. Peace. Later.
