Brett Ethridge (00:01.912)
Hello and welcome to another episode of the Faithful Fatherhood podcast. am Brett Etheridge joined by Perry Hughes as always. Perry, how are you this morning?
Perry (00:09.07)
I'm feeling much better brother, I'm out of the weeds man. I've been sick for about a week or so, so I'm happy to be upright today.
Brett Ethridge (00:16.622)
Uprights good and your voice sounds clear. So we're good to go there and joined by a special guest, Mike Barsemi and Mike, welcome to the show.
Mike Barsamain (00:25.024)
Hey, thanks guys. Really, really cool to be here and hang with you guys today.
Brett Ethridge (00:29.742)
It's cool to have you here. It's interesting how this came about. if you listen to the last episode, episode 87 of the Faithful Fatherhood podcast, we talked with Chris Schloman about a lot of really interesting topics, part finances, mostly identity as Chris is known to do. And after that episode, he called me up and he said, I've got this friend of mine, Mike, you've got to talk to him. So we've gone back and forth and Mike was gracious enough to come on the show to talk about
parenting teenagers, I think is mostly what we're going to be talking about. But Mike is the parent coach. He has a website and social media that we'll link to below. He has the pace method that he created, the pacing method for parenting and pacing with your kids as they enter and move through the teenage years. So we'll get into some of all of that as well. So I know personally, I
Perry's got teenagers, I've got two teenage boys, two to be 16 and 14. And so we're in the thick of it, we're in the weeds of it. So I personally am excited about this conversation and hope to get some golden nuggets that I can apply in my own family. But why don't we start with just a little bit of background and how you even got into parent coaching and maybe start with your own upbringing. What do you remember? I always just like to know what people's experiences with their own fathers were. Like what was...
What was your father like and what do you recall from your own childhood?
Mike Barsamain (01:56.461)
Yeah, man. Thank you for that. That like a lot of I think like a lot of people today, that's a pretty complicated, weedy question. and so my, my father is, his name is, his name is Wayne and, he and my mom never married. My mom was a very young mom and, they were trying to figure out life together. And, and so I didn't, I didn't actually get to, to grow up with him. In fact, it was really, pretty tumultuous, not, not even with me, just with my
Brett Ethridge (02:02.563)
Yeah.
Perry (02:03.096)
Yeah.
Mike Barsamain (02:25.792)
my mom and grandma, and then on my dad's side, was like my, it was like my birth created this family feud. And I didn't really understand that until much later in life. And so I started out life in Arizona. And then when I was about five, some circumstances, we moved to Georgia. so I grew up in Georgia with my mom and my grandma. And then fast forward a little bit, my mom met my stepdad.
just doing business. So she was in the automotive world in Georgia and he was in automotive world in California and they met and over the course of time, I think fell in love and got married. And so we moved from Georgia to California in the early nineties when I was around 11. And at the time I thought that was going to be really cool. I was going to have a dad. I got a lot of neighborhood dads. I was very grateful. My mom became a Christian when we moved to Georgia. It was about five or six.
And we joined a Southern Baptist Church. It's what you do when you're in Georgia. And I had a lot of really cool men. In fact, Mr. Miller was a guy that lived down the street, went to church. His son Clint is the one that led me to Christ when I was in elementary school. so they were really, really powerful influential in my life. And then, but I was like, man, I'm gonna have a dad. And so we came out and it was actually a huge culture shock, Georgia to California in the nineties. And then,
Perry (03:51.129)
Yeah.
Mike Barsamain (03:52.66)
meeting this guy who was super cool when he was dating my mom and then really began to understand who he was as a person. later in life, just learning how much of his childhood stuck with him into becoming an adult in his story. And so it was actually a really tough and painful relationship growing up with a dad that had a lot of anger issues. A dad that didn't, I don't think he knew what he was getting into. You know, adopting me.
which is a part of what happened. So my last name, Barseim, is actually his last name. And kind of a cool circle, my oldest son's name is Everett. That was my birth last name. And probably around 20 years old is when I really began to heal in my life. And that happened because I became a youth leader. To teenagers, I started going back to church with some friends. They were all working in the youth group. The youth pastor said, hey, you need to do this. I'm like, okay. And through that process...
Perry (04:21.625)
Yeah.
Mike Barsamain (04:49.311)
ended up going to a Christian college. God just began to heal my life. So I reached out, reconnected with my biological father. And when my wife and I got married, it's a whole nother story, but things came together and we decided to name Everett Everett. And that actually started to bring us kind of closer together. But my childhood, I think like a lot of teens today are dealing with dads that are pretty disconnected, haven't really dealt with the pain of.
what they've been dealing with, the pressure of being a dad, trying to provide, trying to support, trying to feel admired and appreciated, and that stress and strain of really working and then not being able to shift well or code, I just call it code switching, to be able to come home and turn off the professional side of life so you can get present as a parent and really engage with the kids. So my dad struggled with that. He still struggles with that.
Perry (05:21.338)
Hmm.
Brett Ethridge (05:44.366)
And I think it's, I think a lot of men struggle with that for different reasons. I think the teenage years are tough because it's a really formative and important time period for the teen, right? You're talking about issues that you're having to heal from in your twenties, thirties into adulthood that stem from your teenage years and your relationship with your father during your teenage years. And yet I certainly am finding this it's perhaps a stereotype, but it certainly plays out.
Mike Barsamain (05:46.369)
you
Mike Barsamain (05:55.349)
Mm-hmm.
Brett Ethridge (06:12.544)
It's also a time when teenagers become more distant from having that relationship with their parents to begin with. So as parents were trying to pour into them, help guide them through these important teenage years so they're not scarred in their adulthood. And yet they start to maybe shut us out a little bit. They're less resistant to some of what we have to share with them and are trying to pour into them. At least that's my experience. So we can get into some of all of that. But then it sounds like you've got a heart then for teenagers specifically.
By working with teens when you were in ministry in your 20s, did you always know you wanted a family of your own? Right? So you had this tumultuous childhood yourself, but then did you envision this idealistic, I want my own family and I'm going to do things different. Here's how I'm going to be a great dad. Like, why is it so important for you to to pour into other men to help us have a relationship, a good relationship with our own families and our own teens?
Mike Barsamain (06:42.869)
Mm-hmm.
Mike Barsamain (06:56.181)
Mm-hmm.
Mike Barsamain (07:07.893)
Yeah, I think growing up and being really pretty disconnected and not having a great relationship with my own stepdad, who I call my dad, I just knew that I wanted a healthier and better relationship. And at the same time, was working as a volunteer in youth ministry, got really excited about it, ended up deciding I was gonna get my degree in business and in ministry at this Christian college and became an intern. And I always had dreams and aspirations of going into
the automotive world. still love cars to this day. It's probably the biggest topic I taught. My oldest son is very much into cars. We talk about it ad nauseam every day. and I thought that's the direction I was going and, and, but I got offered a job to be a youth pastor at a church. I just had some other mentors in my life say you should at least try this. And so I did. And I just, fell in love with it. And I just kind of stumbled into the ministry of young life. And what I really loved about young life is everything was built on,
relational equity. was how do I build a relationship with this team first around some kind of common experience? So for me was cars and in the early 2000s, Fast and the Furious had come out, kids were loving cars, they were still customizing cars, they still wanted to drive. It's not as much anymore. But I just really enjoyed hanging out and I noticed that a lot of teams were dealing with what I had been dealing with. Everything from insecurity and self-esteem issues to how do I navigate my parents and trying to grow independent.
Perry (08:18.617)
Yeah.
Mike Barsamain (08:35.485)
Also wanting to build an identity and having dreams and trying to figure out what those were. So I just felt like God just continued to kind of push me in that direction. I think I always, at that point I knew I was meant to do ministry. It was just, how am I going to do it? And I think as Christians, everybody is in ministry. Like I think it's a given. It's just everybody drives a different car for that ministry, if you will. And so for me, it's been, it was Young Life for a long time. I think the switch towards parent coaching came when
Perry (08:54.788)
Yeah.
Mike Barsamain (09:05.301)
I realized we were helping a lot of teens and they were doing really well. Grades were improving, self-esteem was growing, they were catching passion for it. wanted to volunteer in our middle school ministry as high school students. Kids were starting to do really well. But the ones that I noticed stopped doing well or didn't continue to grow is I got to know their parents. realized, parents have these, they're either facing divorce or separation or they're struggling with their finances and there's just a ton of stress.
in their own parents' lives are dissatisfaction. And so the kid would go home, they'd have a great time at school or at Young Life Club, or they'd have an incredible time at camp. And then a few weeks later, they're back to making really poor decisions. And then I would talk with parents who kind of became my same age. I got to the point in ministry where I'm the same age, and my kids are the same age as some of these parents. And they would just start to share and open up. And I'd realize just how unequipped they were.
to connect with teens. And at 11 or 12, your child is no longer a child, they're a teen. are, you know, one sociologist says that they are their own species within the human race. And so from 12 to 24, they're not tiny adults and they're not big children, they're teenagers. And it's a very, very important part of our life and our development that most adults don't remember because your brain shifts and reconstructs at about 24. So I think it protects us maybe from a lot of...
Brett Ethridge (10:08.43)
you
Perry (10:14.424)
Yeah.
Mike Barsamain (10:28.917)
the pain of what we experience and the insecurities we face as teens. And then, know, last couple of years, I read a book by, actually I got introduced to this guy through Chris, but it's this guy, Ed Milet, who's a really fascinating author and kind of podcast guy. Anyway, he said, you you're best prepared to serve the person you used to be. And I think that really...
And it's helped me understand, know, God says that he's, you know, all things work together for the good of those who love God and are called according to his purpose. And so I look back at my life and like, this is what I experienced and this is what I want to help parents and teens with. And so now I get to help parents learn how to connect with their teenager because so much of the relationship matters now. 90 % of the parents that I coach and talk to on discovery calls to see where they're at and if they're even a good fit for the kind of training I do.
Brett Ethridge (11:06.68)
Yeah.
Mike Barsamain (11:23.167)
they have a bad or broken relationship with their own parents. And they'll say, I don't want my kids to experience what I experienced. And so that just shows you the state of what so many people have this unresolved relationship, which needs to be reconciled. And as soon as you do that, that's a part of the transformative process. But that's what's been really exciting is to see parents doing well, kids doing well, families are thriving, they're reconnecting. And then you start to see that just trickle out.
and to the rest of the family and school campuses and community organizations. So I think when families are doing well, our world is doing much better. And according to what I believe to be true, we're all trying to move towards the kingdom of God taking over in a really powerful and positive way. And for me, and I think the work that God has me doing it starts with, let's get families really healthy.
Brett Ethridge (12:13.006)
Yeah, for sure. That's exactly what we're trying to do on this podcast. But let's get specific. I you talk about what it takes to have a healthy relationship. I know a lot of what you talk about is rebuilding trust with our teenagers. Let's start with what we as fathers specifically, because that's a lot of our audience might be doing to harm the relationship that needs to be repaired.
Perry (12:13.144)
Yeah, amen.
Mike Barsamain (12:31.306)
Mm-hmm.
Brett Ethridge (12:42.806)
Like where are we falling short? What are we doing that creates a scenario where our teenagers might not have a great relationship with us and they might be the parents eventually you're talking about that are saying that a lot of the issues stem from what they went through in their own teenage years. How do we not fall into that trap?
Mike Barsamain (12:56.115)
Okay.
Mike Barsamain (13:05.544)
Yeah, well, it starts with us. We have to deal with and manage our inner critic. And I teach parents to move from being a critic to a coach. It actually came from a book written by guy named Tim Goway, who wrote a book called The Inner Game of Tennis. yeah, okay. So Goway's approach of the self one, self two applies to really every part of your life, but
Brett Ethridge (13:22.72)
I love that book. I've taught on that book. Yeah, but big time it's clear.
Mike Barsamain (13:32.861)
I certainly think it applies to our personality or our persons as dads. And the reality is all inner criticism began as external criticism that we just accepted. And people who are really hard on themselves will be really hard on others. And if you think somebody is really hard on other people, you have to understand that person is even harder on themselves. And so I actually have a tool that I measure this against and have been collecting data the last five years. And
The relationships where there's disconnection and dissatisfaction between a teen and a kid, and a kid will say that they don't want to be around their parent. The low self-regard and high self-criticism are two really big components of that. So we see low self-esteem and high self-criticism. I just call it the death spiral because it's almost impossible to escape until you can learn how to coach yourself instead of criticize yourself. Once a dad figures that out, then you can live into the...
Some really important concepts in terms of human development from all of childhood is maternal nurturing. That's what's necessary. That's what's needed. And that could be a dad that does maternal nurturing. That could be a mom that does maternal. It's just a style of parenting. It's getting them to where they need to be for the next stage of life, which is paternal trust, which is what the teen years are from 12 to 24. And it's about accountability. It's about character development. It's learning to keep your word. It's the other things that I teach like.
empowering their independence and preparing them to become an interdependent person. But the only way you get to interdependence, which is the key marker of adulthood that I can take care of myself and others around me, is you have to become independent. And that's the difficult stage we face as parents. So most dads who we want to believe in our competence and that we approach trust from a more direct, paternal,
do what I say and if you don't, I'm going to tell you where you're going wrong. The kind of critical feedback. we, just have a misunderstanding of what, what trust is and how to build it. We take things really personally, which is an attack on our ego. We already might feel unappreciated or not admired or acknowledged for the things that we're doing really well anyway. And so then when it comes from your teen, then it just, and this is always about that. So the sooner we can deal with that,
Mike Barsamain (15:58.016)
then we can really focus on the important person right in front of us because parenting is about discipleship. Discipleship at its core is about teaching. That's what the word, the root word, disciple discipline means to teach or to correct. And so if we take that seriously, then we have to understand from 12 to 24, we're teaching and correcting. That's why I love the analogy of being a pacesetter. I'm coming alongside my team. I'm running the race with them. I'm showing them how to do it. I'm helping them break through the wall, helping them get hydrated, reminding them we're almost there.
But it's a pain. It's parenting is a painful experience, but it's just for now. It's not forever. But if we can understand that when our teen hits that kind of 12 and their brain goes into complete deconstruction and it begins to renew trust for adults goes out the window because as a child, kids trust adults or listen to adult because they're bigger and they just exude this authority. It's very black and white concrete thinking. The teen brain is abstract. Why should I trust you as another question? What have you done that I should trust you?
And what consciously they're beginning to evaluate is, this adult a trustworthy person? Do they care about me? Okay. So that's the empathetic side of the trust triangle. Does this person care about me? Do I believe that they make good decisions? So that's oftentimes why teens will look to other influential adults because they either have the money that they want, the accolades that they want, or the look that they want.
they unconsciously say, that person knows how to make good decisions. Cause the one of the other components of the trust triangle is good judgment. And then the final one is honesty and openness and authenticity. And what's really important through the teen years is that as parents, we get really open and honest about life with our teens. Whereas kids, we keep them from certain things. We protect them from certain things. We kind of shelter them. In the teen years, you have to be pretty much an open book and explain everything.
And you've got to be willing to explain everything a lot because the only way your teen is going to learn is by understanding how do you make decisions and they're what they're sniffing out is are you real or are you not? Are you authentic or are you not enough? I feel like you're fake. I don't have anything to do with you. So the three components of that trust triangle is honesty and openness. And that's more than just telling the truth. It's do I know the real you and do I feel like we've got this
Mike Barsamain (18:20.399)
openness in our relationship. Are you telling me what's going on? And that's like even a simple thing, because we don't always know what's going on as parents. Like we just had to break some news about some family members to our kids and they were asking questions and it's like, honestly, I don't know. We're going to have to wait and see what happens. I don't even know what's going on, but here's what I do know that's happened. And we just share openly and honestly. Now, you know, I also caution parents and say, listen,
You can tell your kids you got some dirty laundry, but don't tell them everything in the basket. You know, like be really careful. Oversharing is not healthy. But if you can be, if you can be open and honest where your kids know who you are, you're showing empathy in the sense of I really care about you and what you're going through. And you can display good judgment, which as parents means, are you managing your finances well? Are you managing your time, your stress?
Brett Ethridge (18:50.85)
Right.
Perry (18:51.352)
Yeah, that's right.
Perry (19:12.762)
Hmm.
Mike Barsamain (19:15.155)
What are you doing to engage in self-care routines? Like your kids are watching all of this. They're literally a sponge because in the teen years, it's what's caught, not what's taught, that's really gonna matter. Your kids will always remember how you made them feel. They won't always remember what you said. And so two things are happening. One, you have to build trust with your teen, either now or right at 11 or 12. And then the important understanding of that is you're teaching them
how to evaluate, I going to trust this person in my life? So if you have daughters, you're teaching them what trustworthiness is in a guy that they may or may not date or get involved with. Same thing for your son in terms of a romantic relationship or a career or a teacher. We have to teach our kids how to trust adults. If we don't, then that's when you read in the headlines about a teacher that or in another adult that was a predator because a kid fell for something.
Perry (20:14.543)
Yeah.
Mike Barsamain (20:14.813)
So this stage of life is all about trust. And then by the time your kid gets their license or you hear this conversation, you don't trust me or hey, you broke trust or we can't trust you to go do this thing. Now you have a conversation and I, you know, even as a, I coach myself constantly, but my kids are not, my kids are teenagers. They're just because I'm a, I'm a coach does not mean my kids have it all. No kid has it all figured out. But when we talk about, when my kids say, well, why can't I go do that? I,
Well, either ask them like, well, let's walk through this because I teach my kids on our, do a ride a passage trip at 13 where we go through the trust triangle. and I say the biggest thing is the reason you can't go do this particular thing is because you're not showing good judgment over here. And this is a simple thing and that's a complicated thing. So until I see really, until I see better decision making over here, I can't trust you to go do that. And here's why. And I tell my son all the time, so my, my oldest son ever has a, one of the E dirt bikes.
saving up and we did some trading on off-rump and he did the negotiating. It was really a fun process to teach him how to engage in those conversations. So we got the, we got the thing, but there's kids crashing and getting hurt all over the place. And there's a busy street that he wants to cross to get to a skate park that we go to pretty often. And he says, well, why can't I go over there yet? I'm like, well, because you're, you're not doing the things at home or at school yet that show me.
that you can manage this mature responsibility. And I'm going to be really honest with you. I just tell them, like, I can't handle even the thought of losing you because you got hit by a car. one of our good friends, this was older, his name was Dan. He got hit running, had a lighted vest. It kind of a dust, but he got hit and we call it Dan's Corner. But I mean, he died. There's been ghostbikes all over our community for the last 15 years where kids got hit by cars.
Perry (21:55.246)
Yeah.
Mike Barsamain (22:13.278)
And so I just, show him that and I talk to him about that. say, I can't let this happen to you.
Brett Ethridge (22:16.878)
And it's interesting. I like your wording. I like where you just went with that because when we haven't given our kids, our teenagers, some of the freedoms that they want. And the reason really is I don't trust you. But we can't just say I don't trust you because then that I mean, how does that help the relationship? But that's really the truth. You haven't earned the right to do that yet because of
how you're showing up here, but the kids can often connect that when I try to have those conversations, they're like, what is the fact that I don't have good grades have anything to do with why I can't do X, Y or Z or just because my room is messy and I have behind on my laundry. Why can't I go spend the night at my friend's house? And I'm just sort of pulling those examples and maybe maybe the things aren't connected. But so yeah, but so.
Mike Barsamain (22:57.96)
Mm-hmm.
Mike Barsamain (23:08.968)
Those are great examples. Yeah, they are totally connected.
Brett Ethridge (23:13.728)
Well, exactly. And I think they're connected. And my wife and I have decided that they're connected. And what you said in this small area, you're not showing trustworthiness. And therefore, how can I trust you in this complex area? Maybe my question is, what are connected things? And do you have additional wording for us or how to essentially tell our kids the reason is I don't trust you, but help them understand that
that freedoms in their teenage years are earned and here is the path to earning those freedoms.
Mike Barsamain (23:48.191)
Yeah, 100%. And I want to affirm you as a dad and your wife too, they are totally connected. But it is the clarity and then having the right conversation will allow you to feel at peace and not be the bad guy in that particular conversation. The first step is, this takes a little bit of time, but you got to stop talking to your kids' problems and start speaking to their potential. So I teach parents about holding the crown and the ideas.
Brett Ethridge (24:11.938)
Love that.
Mike Barsamain (24:15.292)
You have to have a very clear vision of who your kids are becoming as God has entrusted you with them. And so it allows me to use language out of character. And so I pick five or seven things that as I prayerfully think about my son, who I wanted to be, and he's got great qualities. The most frustrating one right now is his persistence. It drives me and my wife absolutely crazy. And yet when he's an adult, it's gonna be his best characteristic that will make him the most successful. And so.
I keep that in mind so that I don't diminish that, because I don't want to. I want to shape it. I want to craft it. So you have to speak to their potential, which would mean that when they're disrespectful, when they're not following through, when they have a lazier mindset, it's like, hey man, this is really out of character for you, because I know that you're really hardworking, because I see it over here. So what's going on that you're...
Perry (24:52.122)
you
Mike Barsamain (25:10.792)
that you're not doing this right now. Are you okay? What happened at school? Are you not feeling well? The best thing we do is just get really curious. the coaches, the difference between transformational coaching and therapy or counseling, which I've been fortunate to be able to do all three of those things in my career, is that coaches raise the awareness of the participant to what they're doing or not doing and help them see where it is that they wanna go. And so that's really what we're doing with our teens.
coaching them to become well-adjusted adults that we want to hang out with one day. So the first part is, yeah.
Brett Ethridge (25:44.952)
Can we settle there a second? Because what are your tips for us then as fathers to be better at seeing that potential? I mean, just your small example of, I know you're hardworking, and yet I'm seeing this lazy behavior. But what if really we just see a lot of laziness in our kid? You know what I'm saying? So how do we?
Mike Barsamain (26:11.462)
Yeah.
Brett Ethridge (26:14.134)
Maybe it's prayerfulness. Maybe it's maybe it's keeping a journal and writing down every good thing I do see because sometimes you can fall into the trap speaking from personal experience where it's way easier to see the areas where my kid is falling short than the areas where my kid is succeeding and I lose sight of all of the potential that I easily saw when he was 10 and 11. And in fact, I just had literally this morning on the way to school with my son. He was like, what should I be when I grow up, dad and
Mike Barsamain (26:34.764)
huh, yeah.
Brett Ethridge (26:43.842)
And I said, well, it's a good question to ask. Here's where the skills that I see in you, they can translate to lots of things. And I said, but really the question you should be going before the Lord with is who am I? Asking first who God created you to be and then what you do as an extension of who you are at core. And he said, well, who am I? And I started to speak a lot of the wonderful things I see in my six year to be seven year old son. mean, he has so many great qualities and I can already see some of the things that God's implanted in him.
Mike Barsamain (27:01.202)
Mm-hmm.
Brett Ethridge (27:13.548)
And I saw the same things in my older kids that are so much harder to see now because I'm like blinded by how challenging they are in their teenage years. So it's a long winded question, but help us reconnect and see well what you're describing as the potential in our kids that we need to be speaking life into.
Mike Barsamain (27:18.398)
Mm-hmm.
Mike Barsamain (27:35.9)
Yeah, and actually I misspoke. Lazy is a lazy word and I don't use it with my kids. I look more for what's not motivating them and motivation, the root word motive is like desire. So what's going on in their life right now that they're lacking the desire to fulfill their mature responsibilities in our home. And so I try to dive into that. We also have to understand that we're
We fight against biology so much with our teens. I've been doing some recent studies. We just did a training on stress-free mornings. This is the number one thing my parents are dealing with, is getting out of the house in the morning. The reality is, kids melatonin, that sleep hormone doesn't hit till about 10 o'clock for teenagers. And it hits, I swear it hits me at 8.30. On the dot, it could be seven. I'm like, man, I got so many things I wanna write.
you know, stuff I want to do and I get the, and like eight 30 hits and I'm, I'm toast like, Oh man. So as soon as I'm tired, they're wired and, uh, and then melatonin is not depleting that serotonin doesn't hit them until like really eight to nine hours later. And it's, it comes later. It comes earlier for us. It's why I can get up at six and they can't. And so we fight the biology too much. So when you start to learn to work with it, you're better off. I also have to understand teens.
Brett Ethridge (28:34.84)
Yeah, I'll do this tomorrow.
Perry (28:36.217)
Yeah.
Brett Ethridge (28:54.446)
Yeah, interesting.
Mike Barsamain (28:58.873)
experience really intense emotions. There's a huge difference between cortisol in girls and guys and how long it lasts and how quickly someone can move beyond a stressful incident. So much of it is just a basic understanding of what's happening in the teen brain and where they are developmentally. And it will be really helpful in building trust and having conversations.
The really simple thing to do that any of us could do right now without having to go through the entirety of the training is if you take a sheet of paper and you just put up three columns, you know, kind of like old school English class, your first column on the far left is going to be mature activities. And then you make a list of all the things that your teams get to do, you know, at home. it could be like, go to the skate park, ride their bike to school, spend the night at a friend's house, stay up till, you know, nine o'clock bedtime, 11 o'clock curfew on the weekends.
have a phone, have their own iPad, get a job, take the car, whatever. Like what are all the activities that your team gets to enjoy as a teenager? The middle column is mature responsibilities. So what if we all agreed on are the appropriate level of responsibilities that your team should have? Now the real work is to build that on what I call the four walls of relationships, which is value standards.
boundaries and collaborative expectations. But the mature responsibility is a shared conversation of here's what we want to see happen. And it's as simple as like, you're going to do your laundry, pick up around the house, your dishes, dishwasher, take the trash. When we ask, you'll do these particular things. Your homework is done on time. The car is parked here. You top it off after you drive it. You wash your face, brush your teeth, like whatever, like you come up with what are mature responsibilities at each appropriate stage.
with your teen and then there's the mature consequences. And that one's actually pretty simple because the mature consequence is just the inverse of the activity and mature consequences only happen when your teen chooses not to participate in their mature responsibility. hey, if you're gonna choose to not do your homework, that's fine. Just understand if you don't get this grade that we've agreed upon as a family is important to us, it could be a...
Mike Barsamain (31:22.971)
It could be a GPA, it could be a letter grade, doesn't matter really. Hey, we all agree this is what's important. So if you don't, if you're not gonna turn your homework and not do this, I'll just take that as your decision. You no longer wanna have your phone, which is fine with me because I'll go ahead and just put a pause and save the $25 a month. Hey, listen, I'll understand that this means you don't wanna have the gas card this month, which is totally cool because I wouldn't mind saving the money. That's fine. Let me know when you want the gas card back and I'll know when you start doing the things that you said you would do. I love you, I'm not mad and.
Where we tend to go wrong as parents is we use punishment because we're trying to correct behavior because we don't want them to become lazy, disengaged people. We fear that they're never gonna make it in life. And we take it personally. What have I done wrong? Why is my kid acting this way? I'm spending too much time at work. I'm not spending enough time with them. I need to fix this. Really none of that is true.
The reality is we don't have the right concept and understanding of what's going on. And if we get this, I think I really do think this is the secret to success in parenting teenagers, is that God's design of human beings is that we would separate from our parents in the teen years, whether that was between 14 and 18, a thousand years ago, or 12 and 14, know, whenever, you know, in early civilizations you kind of became an adult.
Today it's 12 to 25 because of the way, you know, cognitively brains have changed in preparedness for adult. But if we can understand that God designed us to separate, to pull away from the people closest to us in just a short amount of time of our lives, we live to 80, 85, we're talking, it's just five years. I don't know what percentage, I don't do math fast enough to know what that percentage is, but it's a really short time in the human experience. If our teens never separated from us.
We would be at risk of a dying population and incest. Because they would never leave and go find someone else that's not our immediate family. So there's this tearing that happens and it feels like that. Your kid does wanna hang out with you, they're not around as much, you don't have as much time with them, they're going independent. It's so painful, it's so sad.
Mike Barsamain (33:47.161)
And yet you recognize it's the most important thing to happen right now. So that when they become a young adult, I can have a really great relationship with them. So like when I, when I do weddings, for couples, I will always say, listen, the relationship you're establishing today is not about love and communication. It's about authority and priority. So you're, you're not leaving your parents home.
and never coming back. We're not changing love and communication, we're changing authority and priority. And that really is what's happening in the teen years is we can keep love, connection and communication, but the authority priority is they have to go through this really independent experience, feels, well, we call it selfish self abstraction, which, you know, in the psychological term, just middle adolescence.
and it feels selfish, feels independent, it feels painful, but they have to, you can't become interdependent unless you're independent because we all start life as dependent. So it is a process and if we appreciate it and we understand it, then we can actually help our teens become who we envision them. And to answer your question earlier, how do you come up with the crown? You gotta take 30 minutes and go sit under a big tree and just say, God, like,
Who is this kid that you've blessed me with? What do I see in them already? So some of the hard work is, I saw a lot of creativity, hard work, diligence, extreme focus, all those things, everything between Legos or music. My youngest son is an athlete, and mean, he is all about soccer, and he is committed. And so I use words like diligence and industriousness. I really like John Wooden's pyramid of success, so I try to take a lot of his language.
because I want to shape their character. And then when I recognize they're not in character, I pointed out, say, help me understand what's going on here. I, you, you're capable of doing all these things, but right now you're not is something wrong. And usually it's like, sorry, I forgot. Like I'm okay with that. Can you do it now? But that's the important followup. Hey, can you do it now? Can I do it later? You could, but.
Perry (36:02.617)
Yeah.
Mike Barsamain (36:10.616)
I really need you to do it right now because I have to leave for work and I want to make sure that the trash is taken out. So could you just help me and take it out right now? Yeah, sure. No problem. So it's so much of our language has to change to invitational as well. And that's where we go wrong. If you're really direct, it comes across as criticism. If you're invitational, then it's participation, and it's relational length. Use relational language with your kids. They want, they want to feel like
They're useful. They want to feel like they're helping. want to feel mature. So if you just keep talking to them like they're not, or that they're a subordinate, if you have corporate language in your home, you're really going to struggle to connect. And if you keep talking to them in a more of a demanding dependent way, you're really going to struggle with connection. It takes time to condition invitation and it, it's also a way that we relate to and attach meaning to.
When my kid rolls their eye, when they talk back, when they speak disrespectfully, what am I making that mean? If you're making it mean that they're disrespecting you, they don't value you, they don't appreciate, if you're making it mean that, that's work you gotta do in here. And you can, and it can happen pretty quickly, but as soon as you resolve that, then, and you understand and you can see where your kid's coming from, then you kinda get this, I call it like a conversational jujitsu where,
you can turn a phrase or have flashcards. I have a lot of flashcards. I've used them here. I have a lot of one-liners I've just memorized that allow me in the moment to stay calm and then get conversation going.
Brett Ethridge (37:53.43)
It goes back to what you were saying right at the beginning though. A lot of us carry a lot of self-criticism, lower self-esteem than maybe we should have. And so we do take then it personally when our teenagers, it feels like an attack when they're just exhibiting teenage behaviors of disrespect, disobedience, et cetera. But there's also, when I heard you talking about that piece of things though,
Mike Barsamain (37:54.16)
You
Mike Barsamain (37:59.302)
Mm-hmm.
Brett Ethridge (38:20.362)
Are teenagers though also very self-critical? how, you know, what I hear you saying here is if we use that inviting type of a language, we're not piling on that criticism that they would then internalize as well, which further would prompt them to push us away, for example.
Mike Barsamain (38:41.819)
Yeah, teens are certainly very, very self critical. And one of the conditions we all face as humans, it's root. We're really unfair to ourselves. If we're being honest, because I know all the worst things about my life that only I know. My wife doesn't know like all the things that I've, I wish weren't true about myself. So I take all my worst characteristics and flaws and faults, and I put it against the very best that I see in everyone else. You know, and like in an example, it's bad. You got
You guys had this thriving podcast, captain of a boat, you know, you guys are crushing it. You got a really sweet logo. And I could say, man, I'm so lazy. I can't even sit down to write a podcast or schedule it. I can't get it posted in my website. There's all these errors on it. It just creates this really widening gap. And there's this thing called vertical frustration that we all deal with and the difference between who we know we are and where we want to be.
is equal to the amount of frustration we feel in our lives. And frustration is the fast track to bad decision making. And so then we become, and if you're making bad decisions, don't have good judgment, then that means that you're losing trust with your spouse, with your kids, with your coworkers. So this is a cycle that we have to find a way to stop. And that only comes through some sort of intervention. As a teen, I still remember my dad called me a low life, untrustworthy. I still remember a football game where I
I played tight end, came across the middle, caught it first down, we win the game. Not because of that, but the whole team. But anyway, it was a really fun moment for me. And the only time I remember my dad saying he was proud of me was he was like, man, great catch, really proud of you. But then you lost those five yards because you got called on holding when you were defensive end, blah, blah, blah. And that's what he felt. like, that's Barry, that's my dad. He is.
just constantly pointing out everything that everybody else does wrong. So I grew up with that. And then in my early career, I remember I got let go from a church and the senior pastor told me that, we just weren't impressed. That was really painful. You know, like I can think about all these times that people have said things about me that really made me feel like, my gosh, I must not be as good. Well, when I ended up getting coaching and facing some burnout in 2017,
Mike Barsamain (41:08.207)
My coach had said, says, you do understand that all criticism and feedback tells you more about what the other person cares about than who you actually are. It's like when somebody criticizes you, they're just telling you what they think is important. It's actually not an indictment of who you are. So as soon as I learned that, then I began to understand where was this person coming from? And this is always about that was totally true. And so it took time. had go back to all that, every soundtrack, every voice in my head, every criticism I experienced, I had to go back and say, what was going on there?
What did that really mean? What a meaning did I attach and I attached it me so that I could be free of my self-criticism and then I can actually now coach myself into better versions and stay calm and not take things from my kids' person. Doesn't mean I don't get elevated. It doesn't mean I don't raise my voice. But what I can do is stay collected in the moment and not let my criticism then become critical of my kids. And I, like just two days ago,
I got really frustrated with my oldest son and I said, I'm just gonna let you know right now. I'm super irritated. One, because you're not doing what I need you to do. But most of my frustration is because of what happened at work yesterday. And I mean, it's the year end, bud. And this is the biggest time of fundraising for our nonprofit. And I'm not getting the conversations I need to have with people right now. And it's really stressful. So while this isn't that big of a deal, I'm sorry that it feels like it, but I just need you to.
Like get your hair done because we've got to get grandma's in 10 minutes. You know, like.
Brett Ethridge (42:38.894)
And that goes back to that triangle you're talking about. It's a conversation where you're opening the door, opening the window a little bit into really what's going on. You're revealing some things to him to help him better understand why it builds trust between you two. Yeah, I mean, that's good. And that's also really good self-realization by you. And I think the message that I'm getting from that is a lot of times, even if I have the self-revelation about something like that,
Mike Barsamain (42:46.479)
Mm-hmm.
Brett Ethridge (43:08.14)
I don't always verbalize it to my kids, to my teenagers, so they just don't understand why dad's so short tempered today, you know, or, yeah.
Mike Barsamain (43:13.028)
Uh-huh.
and they will take it as their fault. And that's what we don't wanna have happen, because then you're apologizing a bunch or they'll just start to, everybody runs from pain. So every time that we activate our kids' or flight response, that's why punishment doesn't work. Taking away phones doesn't work. Taking stuff away doesn't work in the teen years. And what I have found to be true, and I think the best part is,
Brett Ethridge (43:29.934)
Thank
Mike Barsamain (43:42.875)
We're teaching our kids how to have a healthy relationship with themselves and their emotions because you start to see things reciprocate. My kids will now tell me, man, I had a really hard day at school today. This teacher was really tough. Or I had my son come and tell me, he's like, man, this teacher just has constantly criticized me and pointed me out in class. Because I was like, man, what's going on with you? Like you're not practicing very hard at football. You're kind of shut down right now. I'm getting a lot of attitude from you. And then as we kind of dug in, he's like,
You know, I'm just super frustrated. He's like, it's, you know, this teacher has just been doing this and that. So I had a conversation with the teacher and we didn't necessarily get, I didn't need her to go and apologize. I just needed her to understand that, Hey, maybe pointing your kids out in class in this way is not going to be really helpful to have better classroom management. So, and, and really it didn't, I didn't fix anything with the teacher. but what, what my son learned to do is communicate what he's really feeling. So my wife and I didn't feel like.
Perry (44:28.591)
Yeah.
Mike Barsamain (44:40.908)
he was just being a butt head. And that takes time. It's trailing. That doesn't happen overnight. So that's why transformation as a parent takes six, seven, eight months. But if you're consistent and you have a good vision, you can get there. You can get there. Even with the most shut out kids, I've seen unbelievable changes as parents change the real estate in the relationship.
Brett Ethridge (44:42.456)
Yeah, yeah.
Perry (44:43.224)
Yeah.
Brett Ethridge (45:10.136)
Back to the trust piece, and I like this trust, I like the triangle. And I really like what you're talking about, about how we, our kids, when they enter the teenage years are asking, can I trust you, my parent, who I've trusted my whole life, but now it's a different idea around what trust is and so forth. And you've shared a lot of great ideas about how to do that. What do we do or how do we handle it if our teenager has broken trust with us?
Mike Barsamain (45:11.776)
Mm-hmm.
Brett Ethridge (45:38.248)
We know they're flat out lying to us about something. They're hiding something. They're doing something that has broken trust. And we talked about it a little bit. It's like, I don't want to tell my kid I don't trust you, but I don't trust you right now because you've broken this agreement that we had or you're behaving in a way that is not, it's not an integrity. How do we handle that with our kids?
Mike Barsamain (45:40.74)
Mm-hmm.
Mike Barsamain (46:03.694)
Yeah, the first part is as long as you have that agreement and there's been an open two-way conversation, then you have something to stand on and come back to. So really that conversation is about values, standards, and boundaries. And so if in your family, on the wall is honesty or trust, respect, or love, anything we can tie in. So like, let's say it's honesty is a value in your family.
Then the standard that you guys operate is we don't lie to each other. We share openly about what's going on. When asked, we tell the truth in a kind way. But we value honesty. And so the standard is we do tell the truth and we don't hide anything. Which means that there's also already this, because you have these other things in place, there's not a fear of judgment or punishment.
Right? Teens will just understand if I choose to do this, then I'm also choosing this negative experience or this consequence, whatever you might call it. But if you've got the value of honesty, then the standard is that we tell the truth. as soon as they don't tell the truth, now you have a boundary that you immediately as a parent have to uphold. So the boundary is the limit at which a value expires.
So the boundary is literally, you're driving on a mountain road, that boundary is the guardrail. The boundary is the line. That's the limit at which my driving space expires. And if I go over that, I'm going to get hurt or somebody else is going to get hurt. So one, I think there's a misunderstanding of what boundaries are in relationships, that the simplest way, that's the boundary. So as soon as my behavior is no longer consistent with the value, now we've hit a boundary and you have to uphold it. And part of that conversation,
is hey, know, if you let's say, you know, they're lying, you've got evidence or proof or whatever, that it's you just come to them with it and say, look, as a family, we value honesty. It's who we are, you know, the H and Etheridge is honesty. always has been. And you know, as well as I do that, that means that we tell the truth without fear of judgment. So what I'm, what I'm seeing right now is that you're not telling me
Mike Barsamain (48:26.916)
You know, yesterday after school, you told me that you were working on the weight room, but then I heard you say, and I found out from your friend that actually you went down to McDonald's, you know, and like we've talked about this as a, as a family, the expectation is that when you're at school, you're at school. And if you wanted to leave, you know that you could call and ask, but you didn't do that. And not only did you not do that, but you didn't, you told me you were here and
I just have to tell you as a dad, it's really hurtful that you wouldn't, number one, want to tell me that, but that you would lie inside of our relationship. And so can you help me understand what's going on that you decided not to be honest with me about what happened and give them an opportunity and, but, don't come at them judgmental. Don't come at them with any kind of anxiety or anxiousness. It's just an issue. It's just something that happened. and let them talk and ask deepeners. Can you tell me more about.
well, all my friends wanted to go and they were pressuring me and I knew that like, did I totally get that man? That's really tough. What are you going to do the next time your friends pressure you and push you to do something that's not consistent with our family, with who we are as a family? How are you going to handle that, bud? Because, I mean, this was a real conversation. My son got detention because of some shenanigans in the locker room. And this was a real conversation. What are you going to do the next time they start egging you on to get them to laugh? What's the plan?
Brett Ethridge (49:54.254)
Yeah.
Mike Barsamain (49:56.152)
because the cost is detention. The cost is you lose out on these things. Is it worth it? And that's a part of what the prefrontal cortex is doing. It's saying, is this decision worth this consequence? And the more we can get our kids to hold those two things in tension and experience the full weight, can't, it's not punishment, but you can't be soft on the natural consequence. You just remind them like, Hey man, you look, decided to do this and this is what it means. And I'm okay with that. But in order to be a good dad,
I have to allow you to experience this. And that's the boundary. And then you have to say, look, and here's where you use boundary language. I'm unwilling to allow you to not be honest in our family relationship. So if you're willing, if you want to be honest, we would love for you. I know that you're an honest person. This is out of character for you. I get that you were pressured in this way, yada, yada, yada.
But all of that can only happen when you have the initial conversation and then you have collaborative expectations. So teens will tell me all the time that their parents' expectations are too big and too heavy. And it's usually because parents were just laying on expectations and then moving on. It's like, here's all these things I expect of you. Let's go to dinner. Or here's what you're going to do. Let's go to do this thing. But as soon as a teen has buy-in and they understand the importance of honesty, now they will know
Perry (51:10.81)
Hmm.
Mike Barsamain (51:24.311)
beforehand actually gives them an opportunity to come and say, Hey, listen, I want to tell you something. The other day I told you I was doing this and I wasn't, I actually didn't tell you the truth. I'm really sorry. And then you can decide as a parent, you know, are they going to face the consequence or not? you going to give them grace? I've had that conversation with my kids about grace all the time. But I, but even if my kids will come to me, which ever it did, dang, this kid's been to the principles. I feel like I'm best friends with this principle.
Cause he came home, he's like, dad, gotta tell you, you're gonna get an email from the principal. Here's what happened. And then I was like, I did get an email. I was like, well, you know what? Good for you, man. I'm really proud of you. And I use that language a lot with my kids. I'm really proud you because you're honest. And I joke, we're working on our, what I call our Life OS. And so I say, yeah, the H in Barcaimans for honest. And then they're like, there's no H. I'm like, it's silent. We're working on it. So.
Perry (51:56.216)
Yeah.
Brett Ethridge (52:15.63)
But I mean, it sounds like at some point, you've had a ceremony, do you have a ceremony? Do you have a hey, we're going to sit around as a family and decide what our family values are. You talk to us about the practicality of doing something like that.
Mike Barsamain (52:32.697)
Yeah, well, the parents that I coach, it's a part of the program that we do. So there's a week, we set it up, the parents typically decide, and then we present it to the kids in terms of your family OS. Because as parents, we're the leaders in our family, so this is who we are as a family. Through that process, teach our kids to then choose their own life OS. So who are they gonna, who do they wanna become? And that's a really fun conversation.
And there's a whole process to it. yeah, at some point you, like one of my clients is his was rooted life. They're very outdoors family. Trees are really important where they live in Minnesota. And so rooted life meant something. created a really cool kind of piece of art that hangs on their wall and their boys are into it. And so now every time there's, whether it's a conflict or a discussion or a moment for growth or maturity or quit, everything comes back to this is who we are as a family.
how is where we're going and what we're doing in alignment with this? Because if we're living in alignment, then we're going to have peace and wholeness. But at the minute we're incongruent, when we're doing things that are not consistent with who we are, that's when you feel the disruption in your life and in your relationship. So clarity is so important. And what I try to help people understand is anything that can grow or is alive or can be healthy, which is relationships, has to be managed. You have to manage it.
Brett Ethridge (53:55.616)
is relationship.
Mike Barsamain (54:00.107)
And everything that can be managed has to be measured. So if you can't measure something, you can't manage it. If you can't manage it, you can't grow it healthy. teaching people how to measure relationships and measure their values, measure important aspects of life with each other is really important because that's when you know what you need to address when and how. And once you have that information, then through the regular course of life, you can stop patterns of disrespect. You can hold boundaries, which is the hardest thing.
that typically parents have is like, just need to have better boundaries. Well, what you don't understand is you don't actually have any boundaries. Like telling your kid not to interrupt you while you're talking on the phone, that's not a boundary. That's a request, you know, but you can't have a boundary if you don't have standards. You can't have standards if you don't have values. And the reality is in relationships, all of them, whether it's with your spouse or girlfriend, boyfriend, kids, you don't get what you deserve. You get what you tolerate.
So if you continue to let things happen, the unconscious is, well, this must be what is okay. So you have to get really clear. And you can do that in a variety of ways. You know, if you're starting out fresh, it's building it, it's growing it, and then it's revealing it over a dinner, and then it's informing it, conditioning it as your teens. I like to work with teenagers about 14, 15 years old and start to have them develop like a really written OS and...
middle school kids, I have them start deciding, know, essentially when people talk about you, what do you want them to say? 10 out of 10 boys that I'm Like, yeah, that's not a value. Let's go to something a little bit. We try to get a little bit deeper, you know, and it usually comes either like athlete or hardworking. So you kind of, you start to frame it through the middle school years, but really when you hit that high school and that, that move from eighth grade to ninth grade, that's really when you want your
your kids to walk into high school with a strong sense of self. And all self esteem is, is how do you value yourself? So if they have high esteem, they will navigate relationships so much better than everybody else and they can build on it. But if you don't know who you are, what you're choosing as your values, you can't have high worth and value and esteem. So clarity fixes a lot of things in our lives.
Perry (56:09.07)
Yeah.
Mike Barsamain (56:24.288)
Most of the kids that I work with in person that are dealing with anxiety, stress and overwhelm is because they are lacking clarity on who they are, what's going on in their family, what they wanna do. They're unclear and uncertain. And the world just adds to that noise. The economy. Yeah.
Brett Ethridge (56:48.856)
Well, if you're unclear, the world will tell you who you are, you know, or try to tell you who you are. Man, we are we're almost an hour into this thing and I feel like we barely scratched the surface. If you as a listener like me, my mind is spinning and I can think of a million areas of coaching in my own parenting that I feel like I need. So, Mike, we will talk again. If a listener wants some of the frameworks you're talking about, some of the
coaching packages that you're talking about, working on these values, family value systems, coming of age stuff with their teens. mean, you offer a lot. How can somebody reach out to you? How can somebody work with you?
Mike Barsamain (57:29.788)
thank you. Yeah. The simplest way is just go to present solution for parents.com. So it's just present solution for parents.com or if they're on Facebook, Instagram or YouTube, then it's just Mike, the parent coach and I'll pop up and then they have links from there. We're got the present solution podcast. What I like about that, that I feel is a little bit unique is I interview high school kids and ask them the questions that you guys are asking me. I will ask kids.
and let them talk about their experience and what they like. we'll kind of get them to, sometimes we see a mind shift in the team, but really what's important is just helping parents pull the curtain back a little bit and understand what's going on in the minds of teenagers. How are they interpreting things? Because one thing is true is kids are great observers. They're terrible interpreters. And so helping them learn that is, that's what we get to do. But yeah, we'd love to connect lots of different opportunities.
Perry (58:17.124)
Yeah.
Perry (58:23.119)
Yeah.
Mike Barsamain (58:27.752)
and we have an online parenting group that has a couple of free courses. So if anybody wants to reach out and just kind of dip their toes in how to build some parent confidence, they can sign up for that at present solution for parents.com.
Perry (58:43.418)
That's awesome. And then as we, yeah, that's great. And as we kind of are wrapping up today, will you give everybody just a quick sum up of the trust triangle, those three points that make up the trust triangle, and then maybe, you know, what can we do as parents or what can I do as a father? You know, if I had to pick one of those three, like what could I step towards today to build that with my team? You know, so what are the three points and then what can, what's one step I can take moving forward today?
Brett Ethridge (58:43.662)
Certainly post that in the links below.
Mike Barsamain (59:01.197)
Mm-hmm.
Mike Barsamain (59:06.496)
Yeah.
Mike Barsamain (59:10.902)
Yeah, and just to give credit where credit's due, the initial concept organizationally came from a Harvard Business Review article by Frances Frey who turned Uber around when it was about to collapse. And she talked about Uber had a huge trust wobble. So that's really what we feel as parents. I have a trust wobble. It's not that I don't trust my kids. It's just a trust wobble. And so even if you just Google trust triangle, that organizationally, it's not unique to me. I've changed it just to be a little more dynamic and interpretive for parents.
Brett Ethridge (59:28.807)
Yeah.
Mike Barsamain (59:39.224)
for families, it literally is honesty and authenticity. Do I know the real you? And it goes beyond just telling the truth. Can I see you? Do I know the real you? Do we have an open relationship? It's good judgment, which I define as being able to observe, determine, and execute. Can I make a good determination about what I'm seeing rationally and emotionally? And then can I follow through on a good decision? And then the last one is empathy. And really, I think of it more of...
Do I know that you care about me? And when you're talking about with your teens and trusting the families, do I feel like you care about the family? Like the decision that you're making right now, do I feel like you care? And so that goes both ways. And the easiest way to start to communicate is get familiar with the trust triangle. You can interpret those three things really any way you want. They're pretty simple, but it's based on the fire triangle.
So in fire science, if you don't have an oxidizer, a heat source or a fuel, there's no fire. That's how you put fire out, take away the oxygen, fire goes out. If you take away good judgment, man, you could be totally honest. We've got this great open connect relationship. You care more than anybody about this family, but you make really bad decisions. I can't trust you or man, you are the best decision-making kid I've ever met in my life. And you tell me the truth, maybe sometimes too much truth, but you just don't, I just don't feel like you care at all.
about how your decisions are affecting everyone else. Well, there's going to be a trust wobble there, right? And so you have to have all three and maybe not all at level 100, but they have to exist. if you just, if you think about it like a fire, you know, if you want that fire raging in terms of trust and closeness with your kids, then those three things have to be in equal parts. And because the way life goes and so do bonfires, eventually you either need to add more wood.
Perry (01:01:04.452)
Hmm. Yeah.
Mike Barsamain (01:01:30.826)
or you need to add more air. you're, so that's a part of the life cycle of trust is we have to continue to improve our judgment. We have to continue to connect and show that we care about the other person. We have to continue to tell the truth and be open about what's going on in our lives. And as we do that, you'll, you'll see an infusion of health in the relationship and trust is key. It is the foundation of connection and there's no, there's no correction with your team. There's no conversation without connection. So start with trust.
Google the trust triangle, teach your kids it, and use that language. Hey, here's where I'm really struggling. Can you help me understand what's going on? I just don't feel like you're making very good decisions right now in your life. And that could apply to going to sleep on time, doing their homework, who they hang out with, picking up after themselves, anything.
Perry (01:02:22.83)
Yeah. Awesome, brother. I love it.
Brett Ethridge (01:02:27.768)
So I will post links to all of that in the notes below. Mike, it's been a blessing. Thank you for all that you do for sharing just everything that you've shared with us today for pouring into us and the audience. And with that, we will wrap up this episode of the Faithful Fatherhood podcast and talk with you again next time. Take care, everyone.
Cool man.
Perry (01:02:49.86)
That's great stuff, Mike. I love it.
Mike Barsamain (01:02:51.063)
Yeah, my pleasure, man. That was super fun. I could talk forever on these things. It's cool.
Brett Ethridge (01:02:55.18)
Hmm
Well, it's, it's clear that you're working in exactly where God's called you to be and where your passion is. And I mean, it's clear that you genuinely want to make a difference in people's lives and the lives of families. And so that, that comes through and I appreciate that for sure. And I wasn't just saying it obviously at the end, I, I'll be reaching back out. My wife and I could use some help with some things we're navigating with our two older boys. And so I think there's, there's definitely a need. So I'll, I'll try to figure out the best way to.
Mike Barsamain (01:03:02.497)
you
Mike Barsamain (01:03:23.745)
Yeah.
Brett Ethridge (01:03:29.144)
To work with you, I might join one of those free groups that you talked about and start to get my feet wet, as you suggested.
Mike Barsamain (01:03:32.088)
Yeah, shoot me an email, man. I'll get you the... I have everybody start with my master class, which is just at the top of my website at the present solution for parents.com. It's 20 minutes. I talk about the pace method. I talk about mistakes that we make. And I talk about a couple of shifts and really like, I'll be totally honest with you that the parents who change are the ones who get some sort of mentoring. It's just, there's so much free. I was even thinking about doing an episode recently because AI...
and how easy it is to act. I mean, you can build a parent coach through Chad GPT. And it's gonna give you really good information. Like I've played with it. I said, pretend you're the world's best parent coach. Here's what I'm doing. It gives me solid information. The problem is there's no accountability. It can't actually apply it to my real life scenario. And the minute my kid triggers me, all that free information goes out the window. And then it's like trying to come back and be like, okay, here's what happened. You know, I did this, this, this, and this.
Perry (01:04:29.112)
Yeah.
Mike Barsamain (01:04:31.307)
Chat is only gonna give me some analytical data. It's not gonna help me trends like fix this so that I can fix this. But it is a really cool tool, but it's almost becomes a distraction for most people. And then I see people get really excited about it for like a week or two, and then they fall off again. Because nobody's calling and saying, hey, how are you doing? Hey, what's going on? I've been praying for you. Hey, let's talk about what's working, what's not working.
Perry (01:04:38.906)
Hmm.
Perry (01:04:43.46)
Yeah.
Perry (01:04:56.014)
Yeah. Yeah.
Mike Barsamain (01:05:01.055)
So, yeah.
Brett Ethridge (01:05:02.446)
But then you also you mentioned something that at the end that makes it sound like you actually do do some work with the teenagers themselves. Is that is that correct?
Mike Barsamain (01:05:09.895)
I do in person. I have my coaching business and yeah, just my coaching business, the present solution for parents. I still have work that I do outside of that. So I get to work with Young Life. I get to work as a campus pastor at a Christian school. I get to work with some of the public schools in our area, helping create teachers, learn how to build trust quickly in the classroom so that they don't have disruption throughout the school year. And then
I have groups of kids that I will coach personally. Some of them are student athletes, some of them are who want to go to higher level colleges. Some of them are dealing with issues in their parenting or self harm. And I'll either counsel kids one-on-one or we're building and have, have taught kids leadership. So I, I called it the teen leadership academy. So I did that for several years with ASBs or like a, so like student body, student governments at middle schools and high schools. And so I coach kids every week.
how to be leaders on campus and lead in their own lives. And then now I'm working on a new program specifically for kids with ADHD and parents with kids who have ADHD on how do we work with the biology of their brain and not fight against it and really harness some of what can be a superpower, but get kids a little bit more free. are man, if I've ever seen a kid be diminished, it's cause they're like, I have ADHD.
Perry (01:06:26.607)
Yeah.
Mike Barsamain (01:06:35.702)
And like, tell me more about that. Cause it sounds like you're kind of disappointed. Like, did you know, you know, like all these things can actually happen. You actually have some really great executive skills that most people don't have or can't access. So it's really just teaching them. I don't think that the ADHD brain is the broken brain. It's, that's what we call it neurodivergent. It's just different. And so if kids can learn how to adapt, then they can feel better about themselves and actually take some, some pride into that. And then parents can.
not feel, I think there's just a lot of shame around that. I felt that my son has ADHD and OCD. And so you start to feel like, you start to feel some shame as a parent, you know, and you don't have to, cause those things, can actually leverage some of that stuff in really powerful ways. But yeah, some, some, some stuff. And then most of my coaching programs, as kids are available, I have them take some assessments. One idea is called the judgment index. Another one is the,
Perry (01:07:19.545)
Yeah.
Perry (01:07:24.76)
Yeah.
Mike Barsamain (01:07:35.114)
the disc profile so we can open up communication on how to talk to each other and engage, read each other's emotions. And then we'll do some, sometimes we'll do some family coaching if we feel a little stuck or I'll just meet with kids over zoom, kind of give them some free space to air out how they're feeling about their parents and try and help them catch a little bit of a different perspective.
Brett Ethridge (01:07:56.398)
Well, that's what I was going to ask if you do anything long distance. We're in a situation with our two oldest where therapy has been recommended and they're not doing real well with therapy. But I think some of the more tangible stuff you're talking about getting a better sense of their values, having somebody to air some things out to in a way that they're not doing with the therapist, I think would be good for them. So.
Mike Barsamain (01:07:59.723)
Mm-hmm.
Mike Barsamain (01:08:10.858)
Mm-hmm.
Mike Barsamain (01:08:17.716)
Yeah, what I found is once you, if you can put it in front of a teen to help them understand like, okay, what is it that you want? So it might be, I do want to get good grades. I want to play varsity. I'd like to go to college. I would just like my parents to get off my back. I want to have a girlfriend or a boyfriend. I want like, once you kind of figure out, what, what is it that's really a teen is desiring, then you can say, well, okay, let's talk about what's getting in the way of that.
And that's really where coaching and therapy are so different. Therapy as a model is like, we're trying to figure out how did we get to where we are and maybe understand some trauma and just get kids talking, hoping that they'll talk themselves out of their problems. And some therapists will give some advice. The downside is most therapists won't talk to the parents about the conversation with the kids. And that can be really frustrating because you're like, well, how do I, they're coming home to me. Like, so I think what God is.
said is, why don't you teach parents how to be professionals so they can raise and relate to their kids? Like we don't need to outsource our kids' development. That's why I start with the coaching and then really it's some kids, you know, we hire coaches for our kids, hitting coaches, fielding coaches, soccer coaches, you know, like all these elite. So performance and mindset coaching for a team sometimes are like sweet. Like they're not trying to fix me because I'm broken.
Brett Ethridge (01:09:26.466)
Yeah, I love that.
Perry (01:09:28.206)
Yeah.
Mike Barsamain (01:09:46.167)
They're going to help me get what I want. They show up different. Teens show up different when it's, when they're not like, yeah, my parents are making me talk to you because I'm the problem.
Brett Ethridge (01:09:48.268)
Yeah, that's a big, huge difference. I like the way you articulated that. Yeah, big time.
Brett Ethridge (01:09:59.522)
That's right, which is how it's perceived. Of course it is.
Perry (01:10:02.072)
Yeah.
Mike Barsamain (01:10:02.602)
Yeah, yeah, speak to their potential. But yeah, man, shoot me an email and I'll actually, if either one of you guys want to do it, if you go to that webpage and just register for the webinar and then I'll see it pop up and I'll go ahead and I'll jump in and I'll add you guys to the online parenting group. And so you can dig in and check that out and whatever looks interesting or however we want to continue. I'd love to.
Brett Ethridge (01:10:13.848)
Yeah, I got that.
Brett Ethridge (01:10:29.006)
That's that get instant access button right at the top, right? That's for the webinar. Okay, cool. Good stuff, man. I appreciate it. Have a good rest of your day and I'll let you know when the episode's live and we'll certainly stay in touch.
Mike Barsamain (01:10:31.702)
Yep. Yeah.
Mike Barsamain (01:10:37.088)
you too, guys.
Cool. All right, all right guys. Merry Christmas. Fishy.
Perry (01:10:42.277)
Thanks. Thanks, Mike. Appreciate you. You too.
