Christian Stanley (00:01.237)
I mean, I can't do anything about it, but is the rain super loud on y'all's end? Okay, cool.
Brett Ethridge (00:06.838)
I heard, think I heard it briefly as Perry was praying. was like, what's that background noise? I think it's maybe it sounds like rain on a tin roof or something, but I can't hear it now.
Christian Stanley (00:13.703)
Yeah, yeah, I'm on the top floor of our building so I can't really do anything about it, but you know, I just wanted to make sure it's not too loud.
Perry (00:17.871)
Right.
Perry (00:21.358)
I hear it steady, in my headphones I can hear it. I bet if I didn't have these on I probably wouldn't be able to hear it. But yeah, can hear it. It's just like a, it's not obnoxious, it's just kind of a constant hum in the background, you know? But it's not a big deal.
Brett Ethridge (00:21.623)
I had one.
Christian Stanley (00:33.267)
Okay, cool.
Brett Ethridge (00:37.71)
Rolling. If your eye causes you to stumble, gouge it out and throw it away. Jesus.
Roll it. Hello and welcome to another episode of the Faithful Fatherhood podcast. I am Brett Etheridge joined by Perry Hughes as always. Perry, how are you?
Perry (00:59.034)
I'm doing great brother, hope you are.
Brett Ethridge (01:01.718)
I am doing well and we are joined again by Christian Stanley. Christian, welcome back.
Christian Stanley (01:07.407)
Absolutely, thank you guys for having me.
Brett Ethridge (01:09.75)
Well, it's good to continue this conversation. So Christian, if you haven't listened to episode 83, which was our last episode, we had a wide ranging conversation on sex trafficking. I'm sort of getting ahead of myself, but I really just wanted to say, Christian, you're the first guest we've had to do really a two part series to have sort of a back to back. We've had a couple of other guests who have appeared twice.
but sometimes spread out over a year or even two years in some cases. So we're thrilled to have you back pretty much immediately to continue this conversation, a really important conversation around what we can do to protect our kids, especially with regard to internet exposure and things that they may fall victim to or be exposed to online. I know it's a constant battle, certainly in our household.
I know for a lot of fathers as I have conversations with men, screens and devices and things that we're trying to keep them from seeing and things that they are being exposed to online and social media. it's just this really, really broad category issue that I know we deal with as men and we're trying to drill down into it here with Christian. So again, Christian, we're glad you're back. Christian and his wife, Rachel, are missionaries in the fight against human trafficking.
They partnered with an organization called Free International and a team called The Shepherds. last episode, feel like we went a lot of different directions. So again, go back and listen to that episode if you haven't. But I feel like numerous times throughout, I said something to the effect of, you know, I want to ask you a little bit more about pornography, but and then we would just continue the conversation and keep talking about something different.
Then we come back to it and we'd sort of touch on pornography a little bit in the context. And then we would go on to something else. And we got all the way to the end of the episode. It's like, we need to have that conversation. And so that's really what we're going to be doing in this episode. Internet safety, to be sure. I don't know exactly where the conversation is going to go, but it is going to have a little bit more of a focus on pornography. So I know that's a long preamble to this conversation.
Brett Ethridge (03:27.786)
excited to have the conversation. And maybe I'll kick it over to you, Christian, to start by framing the conversation with some statistics. Because I do remember when you spoke at our church a couple of months ago now, I was blown away by the statistics you shared about the percentage that parents think their kids haven't been exposed to pornography, if I said that right. But then the reality
Christian Stanley (03:56.009)
Mm-hmm.
Brett Ethridge (03:57.706)
of the percentage of teens who have been exposed to pornography and those statistics don't line up do they?
Christian Stanley (04:04.201)
No, you know, pornography and the issue that we're dealing with, pornography addiction in today's world, you know, how you think about like in the old times, the, you think about the movies in the old west, or you think about the samurai movies and all these things where there's a bunch of fighting and there's a bunch of talk about respecting, having this sort of respect for your enemy and knowing that like, if you don't, if you don't,
take control of your side and if you don't prepare well, that your enemy at any time could cut you down. Right. And so pornography in, in that same way in my mind, and I know that's maybe a weird way to explain it, but in my mind, it's a, it's an issue that doesn't get the respect that it needs, because it is dangerous and it is highly, highly addictive. so, you know, what you're referring to, and I don't, I don't remember the, those, the specific percentage point.
but I do remember kind of like where it's at, so I'm gonna be general here. nationwide surveys showed that somewhere around in the 70 percentile of parents believed that their children had never been exposed to pornography. And then when they flipped that nationwide survey and they talked to the children of the parents,
Well over 50 % of the kids reported that yes they had. Which means inevitably that there are parents that think that this is not an issue for their kids, but in reality it is. You know, yeah.
Brett Ethridge (05:36.174)
Well, and I would just put it to you guys. Does that surprise you, Perry? Would you suggest or think that your kids haven't been exposed to it? Whether you know they have or haven't, would you be among the 70 % who thinks, no, it's not a problem for my kids?
Perry (05:56.271)
I would say that, well, first of all, it depends on how we're defining pornography, right? Is it actual, like, videos of sexual acts, sexual penetration, or is pornography just nude images, right? And so there's a definite there, and I would say that I fall into the category that don't think my kids have seen actual videos of lives, you know, recorded sex. However, I do know that my kids have seen images and, you know,
I don't know if it'd be just video or images of nudity online. And prior to having that hard conversation with my kids and realizing, this has already happened, I would have been in the camp of, no, don't think they have. But that's honestly, I mean, it's kind of silly to think that there's no way because...
I you could just accidentally click on it. I mean I could just be on Facebook and click on an ad for socks and then all of a sudden it takes you like you know to some underwear page and then all of a sudden it's you know it's just boom-ba-boom and so for me who is a person who respects my enemy to the point of like always having my guard up against purity with my eyes
and I still can almost get sucked right down into that path, it's silly to think, well, our kids aren't going to get sucked into that because I think until they have experienced it or until we've had that conversation with them as the parent, I think that...
our kids aren't gonna have that healthy respect for the enemy. And so they are gonna be a little bit naive and they are gonna be a little bit too cautious and they are gonna be easily, even if they have a good intention of, I wanna remain pure, I wanna honor God with my eyes, right? But I think also a lot of kids are just curious at that prepubescent teenage years, like, I wonder what a woman's body looks like. And so they might just wanna see a picture and then all of a sudden that is a slippery slope that...
Perry (08:00.614)
you know, they slide right down. And so, I don't know, that's kind of a rambling answer to your question, Brett, but yeah, it's not surprising to me that parents misperceive that reality. And it's also not surprising that, you know, 50 % of kids have, you know, seen that with their own eyes because it is so prevalent. And we live in a world and a society of...
Christian Stanley (08:00.969)
Mm-hmm.
Perry (08:26.01)
that we just have digital access. Most kids have phones at a young age. Most kids have internet at a young age, et cetera, et cetera.
Brett Ethridge (08:34.05)
Yeah. Yeah. Sorry, Christian. I feel like I sort of cut you off. I'll let you continue your thought, but, I did want to share some statistics that I found from a website called fight the new drug.org. And I think that's an interesting name of a, of a mission because it is pornography is being, you know, painted as, a new drug. is so addictive, but it says most kids today are exposed to porn by age 12.
and says, by the time they're teenagers, 75 % of boys and 70 % of girls have already viewed it. Let's see. And here's what's interesting. It says, often before they've had a single healthy conversation about it. And so that's a direction I do want to go at some point in this conversation with you guys is, how do we have the conversation? What is that conversation? What are the key things to point out and talk to our kids about to prepare them for understanding the dangers and.
And just us as fathers framing the conversation around sex in general, because here's another thing that the website said, and this was interesting to me. It said over half of boys and nearly 40 % of girls, so almost half of them, believe that porn is a realistic depiction of sex. And 79 % of teens have used porn to learn how to have sex.
It's not a realistic depiction of it. It's often violent, degrading, all of that. And if that is what is teaching our kids sex ed, essentially, then we are missing not just an opportunity, a responsibility as fathers to actually frame that conversation for them. So I just thought I would share some of those statistics from that website that I had found.
Christian Stanley (10:23.113)
Yeah, it's a huge issue. the statistics I typically use, I get them from addiction, I think it's addictionhelp.com, I think it is, which covers a plethora of addictions. But the statistics that I will use sometimes, and so the statistics you use say up into becoming a teenager, so up into 13 years old.
The statistics that I use say up until 18 and so those statistics say that by the time a child is 18, it's reporting nationwide right now that about 93 % of males have either viewed or actively viewing pornography. 63 % of females are. And you know, so you look at, you look.
at these things and you get down in the weeds, right? So pornography stats, right? So for anybody that's listening, you go and look at these things. When I teach on these, you have to look at all of it because a lot of it, some of it's kind of crazy and kind of out there, kind of wackadoo type stuff. I don't know if that's real word, but you know, then you have, you know, you have to get down to the meat and potatoes of things. And I do...
Brett, website you're using, love their good stuff. I love them. But there, you do run the risk of when you're looking up pornography stuff, like there are certain websites that will say that, well, if you're addicted to pornography, when you were a child, you were sexually abused and things like that. So I want to preface.
when I'm saying statistics and when Brett's saying statistics, these are websites that we trust, right? There are some things that if you go and you look into this for yourself, you're thinking, my goodness, well, my kid's addicted to pornography. Who touched them back in the day and like that, but that's wacky stuff. So another statistic, right? In 20, Lord, my mind, in 2020,
Christian Stanley (12:27.817)
2016 it is actually 2016 one of the top sites of pornography had 4.6 billion hours of content viewed within a calendar year 4.6 billion hours on one website mind you if you if you talk about pornography and not just specifically porn sites but if you talk about pornography
Brett Ethridge (12:40.078)
Wow.
Christian Stanley (12:53.703)
Pornography statistically makes up somewhere around 12 to 14 percent of the internet, the entire internet.
So just one of those sites, 4.6 billion hours viewed, which for one person to do would take thousands and thousands of years. And you look at that and you're like, my goodness, this is monstrous what is going on. And you know, it just goes deeper and deeper and deeper. And I have friends that were introduced, you know, we're talking about 12 years old being introduced. I have friends that were introduced well before. I have a friend that was introduced at eight involuntarily.
and I personally in my story I was introduced at seven involuntarily. So you have you have people who like Perry was talking about you have people who stumble upon it and it's kind of like voluntary type thing that they looked it up.
Perry (13:36.154)
Hmm.
Christian Stanley (13:47.486)
And then you have people involuntary where they were introduced by a friend like, look at this TV channel I've got, or look at this video I found or, or things like that. I have a friend who was nine friend came over to his house with his computer and said, look at what I just found involuntary. He didn't ask for that. No, but then it starts this, this
Perry (14:04.133)
Right.
Christian Stanley (14:07.611)
addiction, if you will, or this Pandora's box that has now been opened, you know, that you didn't even want to open as a child. And, you know, I was introduced at seven, but it really didn't even take root until around 11 or 12. It wasn't something that I was like addicted at seven, but I was introduced to it, which opened that door. So a plethora of issues in statistics that we could talk about, but I think we've hit statistics on the head for sure.
Perry (14:23.504)
Right.
Perry (14:34.927)
Yeah, that's.
Brett Ethridge (14:35.137)
And this is, go ahead, sorry, sorry, Perry.
Perry (14:37.978)
That's okay. I was going to say that's, so heavy and it makes me think back to my parenting and how I could have improved and how I could have done better, how I could have started at a younger age. And what came to my mind right then is, you you talked about if you can ingrain in your kids from a young age, if someone is trying to tell you to keep secrets, that's a dangerous person, right? We can say that to our kids at it from a young age. Well, if someone is showing you
nude images. If someone is showing you naked people, that's a dangerous person. Hey, if someone is showing you this, come tell me. Right? And so we can start to introduce that to our kids at a young age. And I did, you know, it was later in their adolescent, you know, when they're turning about 13, I take my kids, my boys on a coming of age trip. And on that trip, I tell, we talk about pornography. We talk about, um,
nude images we talk about and I say to my boys, hey, someone is going to show you a picture of a naked girl. Someone is going to show you a video of people having sex. They're going to pull their foot up and hey, look at this. And I want you to be prepared for that because nobody told me that ahead of time. And that just happened to me as a teenage boy. And I'm like, you're just shocked by, for me, my own memory, this is years ago.
But you're shocked by it, but then you're also intrigued by it, right? Because I mean, it's the curiosity, the attraction, all that stuff is there. But I wanted to equip my children that when that happens to them, they had a plan in place of going, no, no, no, man, I don't want to look at that. I'm trying to keep my eyes pure. I'm trying to keep my mind pure. I'm trying to keep my heart pure for the Lord. And then I also went another step with my boys and said, when you say no, I don't want to see that, they will ridicule you. They will attack you. They will...
you know, try to make fun of you. They'll call you gay. They'll call you whatever. And so you need to not only be prepared for that initial exposure to nudity or porn or whatever that's going to get put in your face, but then you also need to have a plan for the trash talk and the whatever that's going to happen right after that, because that's inevitable to follow, right? Because that's just human nature. I think for me personally, as I look back,
Perry (17:01.19)
if I had realized, man, this stuff happens at seven years old, right? And it doesn't spark an addiction at seven. It's not until later, 11, 12, 13, when those, you know, puberty hormones are happening, that that starts to come in play more. But if I could have had that conversation at a younger age, I think I would have equipped my kids even better. And so I kind of thought by the time, you know, they're 13, 12 years old, this is a good time to have that.
Christian Stanley (17:15.198)
Mm-hmm.
Perry (17:29.542)
I think I was worried about exposing them too young. You know what mean? Like I think maybe that's some of parents' right. Right, yeah, that's a part of parents' or fathers' like fear is like, I'm gonna plant this idea that there's naked pictures on the internet and that me planting the seed is then gonna cause them to go look for it, you know? And so it's like, that's a hard balance I think sometimes in a father's mind. At least it was for me.
Brett Ethridge (17:34.562)
You don't want to plant ideas.
Christian Stanley (17:50.686)
Mm-hmm.
Christian Stanley (17:54.173)
Yeah, I think.
Brett Ethridge (17:54.446)
you feel like 13 was about the right age with your kids,
Perry (17:58.019)
yeah, I mean, I think so. I do know that, I do know that my kids had been exposed to some of that stuff. don't, I haven't had the conversation as to exactly what extent they've looked at. But I mean, I know that all three of my boys have been exposed to it at some level. and it is something that we talk about ongoing, you know, it's that you can't just have this conversation with your kid once and then think it's going to be dialed.
So we do come back to it on a regular basis. We do talk about purity with our eyes. We do talk about honoring the Lord with our thoughts, etc., etc. So I don't know. I don't know if that was the right time or if I should have done it sooner. I can't give a judgment on that at this point.
Christian Stanley (18:48.569)
I would say that in saying those young ages, I don't ever advocate, and I think that is the jump that some parents make when I say things like that, is like, I need to go and talk to my six or seven year old about pornography and all this hardcore sexual type stuff. And it's...
That is not what I advocate for personally. I do think the conversations like what we talked about secrets and people showing you things and being like, don't, you know, hey, that, and if somebody exposes them, it's like, well, okay, they're exposed. The chances are nowadays you are way more likely to have a kid by the time they're 18 be exposed to pornography than to not. So preparing as a parent for that moment, but also having
preparing your child for that moment that if somebody shows you something and they say hey don't tell anybody or whatever right goes back to the secrets and these things that we can Conversate about with our kids without bringing in all this explicit material That early I do think I think 12 or 13 is a is a good area to have those those more sharpened conversations more deep conversations
Because I don't want to scare any parent. Don't sit your six-year-old down and be like, hey, having these super in-depth conversations. I do think talking about that there is a deep evil out there, and it's not just pornography, but there is a deep evil out there. And it is a father who is a believer teaching my child that there is an evil out there that is seeking to devour us.
and making sure that that is a part of the conversation because that is what it is. Pornography, I mean it's the same issue you had in the Garden of Eden. It's that apple. And you know, and as soon, if you don't let your kid know that like...
Christian Stanley (20:46.725)
somebody's going to try to offer you this, somebody's going to try to show you these things, pornography, nudes, sex, whatever. If you aren't the first person to tell them, right, you'll be the last. I said that in the last episode. So they find this apple and they're going to do exactly what Adam and Eve did and they're going to try and hide from you as the father. They're going to hide it from you as Adam and Eve hid from God in the Garden of Eden. So it's that same battle as a father. And I think we have to approach it in a way of just preparing our child.
for like pre-conversations to lead up to the big ones when they get to that age that we feel comfortable doing that. So that's just my thoughts on it.
Brett Ethridge (21:29.078)
Let's talk a little bit more about the conversation to have with our kids. I've had a lot of different directions I'd like to go with this, including trying to prevent them from seeing it as long as possible on the front end. So I want to talk about technology and all of that. But we do need to have conversations with our kids. We're not scaring our six and seven year olds. But when we're sitting down and talking with our 12, 13, 14 year olds, what are some other things to say, Perry? I like really what what you talk about.
You need to be prepared for it. How much do you talk about the why though? Why is it important to keep our eyes pure? What are the dangers of pornography? And it sounds like a stupid question to even ask. It should be self-evident. You shouldn't look at porn because it's bad, but it's just telling them it's bad enough. What are some of the other things that we can point out as to why it should be avoided?
why it's important to keep our eyes and our mind pure before the Lord. Are there non sort of scriptural reasons though that are also important that we just need to impress upon our kids? What are some of the thoughts that you guys have about what the conversation should actually look like with our kids?
Christian Stanley (22:45.479)
Right, you know, scripture-wise, and there's a lot of scriptures that you can find on this, but you know, the one that comes to my mind, Proverbs 423, right? Guard your heart for everything you do flows from it, you know, and whatever it says in the translation that you prefer. But guard your heart for everything you do flows from it. I think that is an essential conversation that fathers and mothers need to be having with their kids because...
That covers everything for the most part, right? It doesn't just cover the sexual things, but it covers drugs. It covers, you know, alcohol and lies and, you know, in doing all these mischievous things. Because if you let these things into your heart, the Bible's clear. That is what's going to flow out of you, right? At some point, the darkness is going to come to light. You know, so you have to be able to guard yourself and teaching your child from that point, I think is good.
Perry (23:17.605)
Yeah.
Christian Stanley (23:43.464)
You know, having that conversation and I do think Perry's right on with that stuff is having that conversation with your child that somebody, right? I like how you phrase it, that somebody, it's not if at this point, right? It's not if anymore. You know, maybe 40, 50 years ago it was if, but now it's not if, right? When I was in high school, when I was in ninth grade,
Perry (23:58.842)
Right.
Christian Stanley (24:09.513)
I was on the basketball team and I was homeschooled when I graduated, but I went back to high school for to play basketball. And I remember in the locker room, there were guys that were watching pornography together, like just, you know, kind of like, Hey, look at this, you know, type stuff. And that was ninth grade, right? And so it's a little bit on in the age as far as 12 and 13, but
Brett Ethridge (24:23.406)
Hmm.
Christian Stanley (24:35.653)
watching pornography together and it was seniors and juniors and sophomores and stuff and it's kind of like this camaraderie type thing but it's hey you will have someone approach you that is going to try and show you these things. you preface I as father I don't know who that's going to be.
I don't, you know, I have seen the worst of the worst cases to be honest with this stuff the more and more I go into it. I've seen where it's not that outside person, that outside friend that you don't know. I've seen where the grandfather has introduced the kids to pornography because he believed that they needed to be introduced at a young age.
Right? I've seen that. I've seen where a mom has introduced. I've seen a dad introduce young kids to pornography and some... and predators. Right? Predators use it.
to soften your kid's mind towards it. So I like that we're going in a direction of it's not if. Have the conversation of someone is going to offer you this and at this point you are going to need to make a stand and kind of the same thing with the secrets is come back to me as your father, come back to me as your parent and let me know who did that and what were they trying to show you. And then as a father you deal with it aggressive.
Perry (25:56.133)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Christian Stanley (25:56.892)
right, whoever that person is. If it's a friend, go to their parents, you know, whatever, do what you have to do. But, you know, I think teaching them that you are going to have a point where you're going to have to stand firm, you know, and in that point, know that I, as your parent, I am here and I am ready to help you. So having that connection, I think, is really, really important.
Perry (26:24.186)
For sure. And then I think for me, Brett, to follow up on that, to piggyback on that, Christian, is I think we have to zoom out and have that broad view of God created sex, He created intimacy, He created pleasure, but it all falls within this context of relationship. And it happens to be actually long-term relationship defined in the roles of marriage. And then when we look at pornography or lust or just...
in the moment sexual pleasure that basically I think having this conversation with our kids to help them see the why of porn sex isn't real sex because it extracts the element of relationship out of it. And I think that's a big part of it and just highlighting the fact that it's inauthentic pleasure. It's Satan's twist. It's his lie. It's his
you know, whatever, it's his defacement, his mangle of what God created to be pure and holy and beautiful and beneficial for, you know, both and etc, etc. And I think when our kids are mature enough and ready to bring that why into place, you know, I think that it's helpful because I'm a big believer that
it helps to explain the why because then they can have their own buy-in. And at some level, yeah, we hope our kids trust our judgment enough and they trust our leadership that when we as dad or mom, whoever's listening goes, hey, this is something you want to stay away from. It's super dangerous. You might not understand it fully right now, but trust me on that. But I think when we can pull back the veil a little bit and go, let me give you some of the reasoning behind why I believe this is so dangerous.
we can talk about that, I think that helps. So defining how pornography and lust and sexual sin is the twisted version of what God created in perfection, I think would help our kids on the buy-in level, probably. And then I think maybe to talk in some levels of the dangers of the addiction and all that stuff probably is gonna help some kids who are wired in that way.
Perry (28:43.664)
But anyway, I don't know if that's a good piggyback or not for what you were saying, Christian.
Brett Ethridge (28:46.668)
It, yeah, I like that. And I think that is helpful. And I think it's, it's knowing your kids because I think, I think along the lines of what you're talking about, Perry, right? For me, you know, I'm even projecting out.
mean, the statistics are very clear about the long-term dangers of pornography in terms of how it shapes you. You are thinking about what is normal and not normal, about your body's ability to respond in sexual encounters in the future with your wife. Divorce rates are higher amongst people who are addicted to porn. We have good family friends, you know, at this point now I'm talking to...
adults, men listening to this as well, but we have good family friends. Their marriage ended because he was sort of secretly addicted to porn. She found out and it just created all sorts of issues in their bedroom and he wasn't able or willing to get help, help with it. And it just it totally destroyed their marriage. And so, you know, I don't want that future for my 12 year old. Right. Of course, we don't we don't want that. So that's why the longer that we can prevent them from being exposed to it and
We don't want that to become normalized. Of course it's hard for 12 and 13 year olds to think about life when they're 30. It's hard for us to take care of our health when we're young because we think, I won't have to worry about heart disease till I'm 60. I'm gonna eat the donuts now. Delayed gratification is always a hard thing. It's always hard to get adolescents to think about their future. That's why adolescents.
take risky behaviors and all sorts of in all sorts of areas. It's just sort of it's sort of inherent in the growing and exploring process. But I do think it's our responsibility as fathers really to impress upon them that there are some really serious dangerous son. You want to be married someday, right? I envision you being married someday. You're going to have a wife is what you are doing right now with your eyes fair to her. 15 years from now, you don't even know who she is.
Brett Ethridge (30:48.568)
You're essentially cheating on your wife right now. And that's actually, that's literally the way I think about that. I really believe that. I don't know if my 12 and 13 year old would understand that or view it that same way, but the decisions they're making with their eyes now are potentially going to have long-term ramifications in terms of their marriage relationship.
Christian Stanley (31:09.169)
Absolutely. Before we move on from this thought, I want to get this in here because I think it's on track with it, is that as fathers, I think a lot of times we tend to, especially when kids are young, instead of having these conversations and kind of coming, trying to help our kid understand why something is bad, we tend to, right, in this, you know, this is transparent and my child's one, so I haven't had an option to do this yet, but just
you know, me growing up and me seeing other people father, I think we tend to jump to the fear. We try to make that we try to instill the fear in them, right? Of certain things to keep them from doing things. And the thing for me is, is our father, right? God, what if he were to deal with us in that way? What if he were to teach us through fear? You know, we're supposed to have a healthy fear of the Lord.
Right? But if God were to teach us through fear, the way a lot of, you know, lot of parents just in general sometimes just take the easy way out of just, I can make my kids scared of this thing, then they're not going to do it. So, you know, so, but I don't think it's necessarily the most healthy way. Right? I think, I think Perry and Brett hit it perfectly is that we're not
Perry (32:23.055)
Right.
Christian Stanley (32:33.799)
I don't think we need to be operating from a place of fear where we are making our child scared of these things, but I think our goal should be to be raising a confident child that is not only confident in just general, but confident in who they are and confident in who they don't want to be. And so explaining to them, you know, like, right, I've had this thought and it's rattling around in my brain. haven't had time to kind of flesh this out.
Perry (32:52.26)
Yeah.
Christian Stanley (33:01.447)
Right? But we talk about, and I may have said this in the first episode, so forgive me if I'm repeating, but you know, in trafficking, the guys who buy sex, they're a John, right? They're called a John. And my point to people and believers just in general who just don't understand it is a John does not just wake up one day and become a John. Typically.
it starts from pornography addiction, starts from something that eventually that high is not giving them what they want. So they decide they want to go out on the street and buy sex because the videos just aren't doing it anymore or the pictures just aren't doing it anymore. And there are other things. Johns can have sexual abuse in their, in their history or just abuse in general, but pornography is a big connecting one nowadays because it's so easily accessible. So we raise them to be confident in who they want to be, I think is where we need to start.
But as fathers, and this is something, this is a thought, I'm gonna read this off my notes, because I had this at 2 a.m. last night, because I don't know why. But so, fathers, I think, tend to want to let their kids learn from experience. I think that's something that fathers typically do, and now, whether it's falling off the couch or getting dirty or something like that, I'm not talking about that. I think a kid can learn sometimes from a good...
you know, you take, told you not to do that and now you've got a bruise on your knee. Like, you know, I'm not saying that that's not an okay thing, but fathers tend to take that laid back position of I'm just going to let my child do what they're going to do and they will learn from experience like I did. Right. So I came out of the mud. I had to learn through these things. So they have to learn these things. And so a lot of times what you see is you see a, or at least what I'm seeing in my room.
is you see a mother that is extremely, you know, not only scared of these things, but extremely against these things, pornography and social media just in general and internet, and they are trying to keep their child from it. They are wanting to limit internet access, wanting to limit phones, but you see the fathers are kind of like, yeah, you know, like they'll learn.
Christian Stanley (35:19.785)
They need to learn and things like that. So you see the father's kind of sitting back and kind of not supporting their wife in that area because they think, you know, kid learns from experience. So, but here's the thing is that for any father listening, pornography is not an area that you want them to learn that way in. I think Brett's on it here is that the longer and longer we can prevent it.
My prayer is, hey, let's get them to adulthood and they've never seen it. Right? But you know, it's just, that's difficult to do nowadays. I mean, it's in movies and TV shows and all these things, right? But pornography is not an area that you want to play that game in of my kid is going to learn by experience. So for the fathers, I wrote this down that if your wife wants to restrict phones or internet, support her and get on the train because whatever you believe about
Perry (35:48.186)
Yeah.
Brett Ethridge (35:52.206)
it.
Christian Stanley (36:12.573)
They need to learn by experience and they need to make it out the mud and all these things. That does not apply here. And I think the only way to effectively fight this is for both parents to be on the same side. And that even goes deeper. And like we said, we don't really know where these conversations are going, but that even goes deeper. Dad that's listening, if you're struggling with this stuff, right? If you're struggling with this and you haven't dealt with it,
I can 100 % guarantee you your son's gonna deal with it because you have not defeated it yourself. And so that's getting him the weeds there, but yeah.
Brett Ethridge (36:43.598)
Yeah.
Perry (36:45.894)
That's right.
Brett Ethridge (36:46.99)
Yeah.
Well, it's important. think I want to go. I want to go there. I want to talk about how we can help prevent it as long as possible. I do have one one other quick thought and story before we sort of wrap up this this part of the conversation. But I can imagine I can imagine what you just said, Christian, a father maybe being a little bit hesitant to put full blocks on all dangerous IP addresses because it means my 12 year old can access it, but it means I can't access it either. like, yeah. So I.
I hear what you're saying there, Christian. The final story I wanted to share though is something that just happened for us in our family this summer. And the idea is this, that as much as fathers, as we think ours is the authoritative voice and it's the voice we want our kids to hear and it's my job as the father to get through to them and I need to have the conversations and think about the right way to talk about pornography.
And we do, and I'm not suggesting that we, you know, absolve ourselves from that responsibility because it absolutely is. I would also suggest that sometimes, especially as our kids are in the teenage years, that they will hear things from others sometimes in ways that they wouldn't hear it from ourselves. And so allow your kids to be in environments where they may have.
the right messages around pornography reinforced either by their peers or other adults that they may look up to. And the story I wanted to share was one of our sons, we sent him off to a Christian camp this summer and he came back basically saying, pornography is stupid. I'm never going to look at pornography.
Brett Ethridge (38:31.31)
And we're like, where's this coming from? Good. I love to hear you say that, son. He goes, well, you know, my counselor was talking about it at camp and they had a whole session on pornography up on stage, you know, as the Wednesday night thing and so forth and so on. And so he was impacted by being in an environment where somebody else that he had grown to like and respect and trust.
was speaking the same thing that I would speak to him as his father, but he heard it differently in that environment. So, so then sometimes it does take a village. Don't be afraid to let trust other trusted sources speak a little bit into your kids' lives as well, if they're going to reinforce the messages that you want reinforced. Let's.
Perry (39:09.06)
Yeah, let me jump, let me at piggyback on that too, Brett. And so I think that it does sometimes take a village. And I would say to follow up on Christian, what you were saying earlier, you know, what would you say to a man who is struggling with guarding his eyes and his mind, you know, from pornography? Where can a man who feels trapped in that, you know, get out?
Do you have a resource, a website, a hotline or something where somebody, maybe he doesn't have a pastor, maybe he doesn't have a dear friend. I think for me, I have men in my life that hold me accountable that we ask each other, hey, how are you doing with your eyes or you honoring the Lord with your eyes? Hey, have you looked at any pornography lately, et cetera, et cetera. There are a few key men in my life that I know if I start to slide down that slippery slope.
boom, I just pick up the phone, make a phone call, hey man, I need some prayer on this. I need you to, you know, be my wingman on this. I need you to be my accountability. But what would you say to the man who maybe doesn't have, you know, a path or it feels, you know, too deep in the woods or it feels too embarrassing to even admit that, yeah, this is something that I'm struggling with. It's one thing to sit here on a podcast or listen to it and say, we want to make sure we're keeping our kids, you know, pure in this area, but.
you know, maybe he's a leader in the church, maybe he's got some responsibilities, maybe it's like, man, I can't let this cat out of the bag. What would your advisor and your encouragement be to some man who's struggling in that and maybe doesn't know how to begin the steps to get away from it?
Christian Stanley (40:42.577)
Right. So, you know, so statistically, I'll throw some statistics there for like, say it is a church leader or say, you know, whatever. Something that deeply burdens me is nationwide in the United States. This is not worldwide.
But nationwide in the United States, and this is all denominations, this is not just the Assemblies of God or the Baptists or whatever, it's all denominations of Christian churches. Only 7 % of churches have anything that addresses pornography on a regular basis. Most times what I see traveling around, most times what I see is pornography addiction. The only time it's mentioned in the church is the altar call.
It's kind of like a few deal with pornography come down here. That's it. You know, you know, and it's like, man, it's deeper than that. And the thing that burdens me about it is 7 % of churches do this. But statistically, when you look at addiction help.com, pastors that have have replied in anonymous surveys, well over 50 % report that they're still struggling with pornography. And it's like, okay, well,
Perry (41:28.068)
Yeah.
Christian Stanley (41:52.298)
We think about why would only 7 % have things that are addressing it. And then we look at, well, now there's well over 50 % of pastors are reporting they're still dealing with it. So this is a deep issue here. This is entangled and the webs are just going all over the place. And how do we straighten it out? Right? So as a man, here's what it comes to is you have to, there probably is a better way in saying this, but you have to out yourself. You have to.
Because the lie that anybody who is stuck in pornography believes is that if I tell someone my life is going to end, right? But here's the thing. You can keep it a secret all you want. If somebody finds out without you saying it voluntarily, yes, your life will end. It will take a lot of things from you.
Pornography I say that like you do not play with this because it will take Absolutely everything from you the story Brett was just talking about your marriage. It will take money from you It will take your kids it will take everything from you if you do not deal with it it's one of those things that it does not pull punches when the rubber meets the road and so You have to find that person that you that you trust like Brett like Perry was talking about find the person that you trust I have
three or four guys that I talk to, we talk to each other, we have the same issues. And you have those people that you talk to. So, and I'll have to send Brett the link to this, but there is, you need more of an in-depth thing, and say you're like, man, this is such a problem, I need to go to like rehab or something like that, but you don't really know what that looks like, there is a ministry in Kentucky. It's called Pure Life Ministries.
And I've had run-ins with them multiple times and I don't remember their website I would assume it's a dot-com but I'll find it and I will send it to Brett for the for the description of this episode But pure life ministries it is a place where It's just it's all guys. It's all men And it's this home that if you really struggle that back
Christian Stanley (44:03.291)
If you have that bad of an issue, you can go to this home or if anything, you don't have to go to the home and be in some rehab. You can talk to them. You can counsel with them. But the thing with them is they only, they only do adults. They don't deal with minors. It's just 18 and above. But that is a resource for men and I, and me personally, I trust them. I trust them very well. I've, I've had very good conversations with multiple men that work there. So you have that. And then here, here's the hardest thing.
that I'm about to say for any man listening is if you are married and you are addicted to pornography or you're struggling with pornography, your greatest weapon is your wife. And the thing is, and I'm not saying that, my wife needs to be doing this and that with me so that I'm not tempted. Your greatest weapon is your wife in the fact that she needs to know that you're dealing with it. And that might sound like the worst thing in the world to somebody right now because you're living in a secret sin.
And like I just said earlier, I would much rather you sit your wife down and be like, hey, I'm going need you to love me really hard for a second because I'm going tell you something hard. And have that conversation rather than her catch you because there's going to be no conversating if she catches you. Right? So your wife is your greatest weapon. And letting her, my wife knows that I struggle. She is, I still have an app on my phone.
Now I don't like if I weren't to have that app would I just go and look up pornography today? No But I still have that app on my phone because it's something that I've struggled with in the past and it's not a door that I want to leave open because I do not want to go back there Because it's tough once you slide into that tar pit It's hard to get out and so my wife is one of the this app that I have on my phone ever accountable I recommended in the last episode. She is one of my you know accountability she gets
my report and everything. so letting your wife into this dark area and saying, I struggle with this and asking for her help, I promise you it may be, it may be a little grinding at first, but your wife will respect you more. That's my prayer at least, right? My wife in this area was very well. And I have friends that their wives responded in the same way and wanted to help.
Christian Stanley (46:30.941)
you would much rather have that than the other way around, than them just finding out one day and you trying to fight it yourself. So, and listen, I know what I just said is tough, tough, tough, tough. Listen, I do not, I do not make qualms about that. I know it is, but it's conversations that need to be had. It just simply has to happen.
Brett Ethridge (46:54.318)
into light what is in darkness that's really that's what Jesus came for and it will happen one way or the other as you suggested what is hidden in darkness comes to light and so let's do it ourselves men yeah I like that Christian let's talk a little bit about prevention
because I think what is so hard about the world that our kids are growing up in, and even you, Christian, right? So we talked about our age differences in the last episode a little bit. Perry and I are a little bit further along where, you know, when we were growing up, I remember my first exposure to a dirty image was through an actual physical magazine in middle school. And nobody had had a conversation with me. was like, I was shocked to see it. And I actually sort of...
remove myself from the situation at that point. I just was like, I don't think I'm supposed to be looking at this, but it was a physical magazine and it's hard to get your hands on a physical magazine, right? mean, at age 12, you're not going to the local 7-Eleven or the local wherever you would buy those or, you know, I think Playboy used to be a subscription, a 12 year old's not getting a subscription. So you didn't accidentally stumble on it.
quite as easily I would think when Perry and I were growing up as you at age seven or the kids now. On the last episode, I shared a story about how one of our kids had something literally just pop up on the screen. It was just on a random video or a random YouTube video and AI pops up with.
nude images and Perry you talked about that earlier you know you're all of sudden go down a rabbit hole of a of an underwear ad like the point is our kids are growing up in a very different world where the exposure is easier and more accidental in some cases and then leads down a path of destruction so how can we stop it on the front end you talked about the ever accountable app I think I think some what we talked about on the last episode in terms of preventing against the sex trafficking and grooming and stuff
Brett Ethridge (48:55.99)
certainly applies here, but what advice, what recommendations do you have for us as fathers to help protect our kids from being unnecessarily exposed to this at an early age?
Christian Stanley (49:09.167)
So, you know, so ever accountable specifically is for somebody who is already addicted to pornography. So it's an accountability app. It's for somebody who is dealing with it. I would not recommend ever accountable for just, I don't know if my kid's been just putting it on their phone. It's not that type app. It's for somebody who is addicted to pornography. I want to make sure people know that. So I recommend, you know, you have limiting
Access to and we hit on this and the last steps of it limiting access to social media as long as possible Because even if they are not exposed by someone else eventually You know on social media now you have all these only fans models and all these girls that are kind of like selling themselves online and You know they have Instagram accounts, and they have snapchat accounts and YouTube and all these things so the the
the likelihood of your kid, if they're on Instagram, coming across one of these accounts and being like, I wonder, you know, they have this link in their bio, let me click on it, I wonder what they do, you know, type thing, and then finding it, it's very, very high. So limiting that access to social media, and especially through like a, you know, I recommend Bark. So Bark is the one that you're gonna see on TV that I, listen, no app.
is bulletproof. I want to make sure parents know this. This app that you're going to put on your kid's phone is not your savior and it doesn't mean that you don't still have to do the work. You know, like you still have to show up and have these conversations. So it's not bulletproof.
Perry (50:45.454)
Yeah, yeah.
Brett Ethridge (50:48.024)
Well, and it's stuff like we talked about last time, too, right? We need to know our kids' passwords for things. We need to check their search histories. I know they can probably delete histories and things like that. But like the more regularly we're saying, who are you chatting with? And just being vigilant, it's OK as parents. You know, our kids might say, you're invading my privacy. You're 12 years old. You have no privacy. You know, it's like, I'm your father. I get to see what is on your device. I get to see who you're chatting with as you're playing Minecraft.
Christian Stanley (51:11.355)
Right.
Brett Ethridge (51:17.57)
That's my responsibility as your father.
Christian Stanley (51:20.209)
Exactly. so, so, bark, I think is a well enough good one. I've heard people that say gab phone is good. I recommend if your kid doesn't already have a phone to get them one of these phones that, you know, from bark or from gab, they sell phones, you know, that don't have access to internet or you completely control the phone. Whereas an iPhone or an Android, you don't really have as much control as you think you do.
especially if your kid knows how to use the device. you know, as far as BART goes, we actually, I'll just throw this in here because I can, it's not just a link like the ever accountable one, but we have a discount for BART. If you're a parent that is, well, not a discount, I can give people a free month. I don't get anything from it, but so my last name Stanley, free M-O, you can get it if you're a parent that you've been thinking about that and you're like, I don't want to jump off the ship yet. I don't really know what to do. If you put my last name, it's all caps,
spaces, Stanley free MO. It'll give you a free month and you can try it out and at least see what you think about it without spending money. Cause I know, I know fathers sometimes are, you know, sticklers about spending money and they don't really want to spend money on these apps and things like that. And like, you know, and that goes back down the rabbit trail of my kid doesn't have these issues, but I recommend those. I made a recommendation on a podcast I was on that hasn't come out yet, but a couple of weeks ago.
Because I've been seeing this trend, and I don't know if it's millennial trend, Gen Z, I don't know, maybe both, but where these parents are going hardcore, like I don't want to do internet because the internet's so dangerous. So I talked about limiting social media and having these phones. If you're a type person, you don't even want to play with it. You don't want to play with fire, right? I have seen this trend where parents are going out and buying
the old TVs that have the DVD player built into it or those, I don't even know what they're called, the portable, they look like a laptop. It's got DVD, you know, put a DVD, I don't remember what it's called. I remember I had one when I was young for like a couple of years and then it broke. But it's the like computer looking thing, put a DVD in it and you can take, it's portable, you can take it anywhere. And I've seen parents buying these things for their children and buying them this, you know, this
Christian Stanley (53:44.304)
sizable amount of DVDs of these old movies and old Disney and you know all these things that they approve that they know is good and they're giving it to their kids at Christmas or whatever and they're saying hey you can watch a movie anytime you want and to a kid it's like man I've really got control here whereas if you give them YouTube and you give them Netflix you've got to put all these parental controls and they kind of feel like they don't have freedom which is why kids search for these things.
Right? And so these parents that are starting this trend of not giving them a phone or whatever, but giving them this TV or this little laptop looking thing and giving them this plethora of DVDs and saying, Hey, it doesn't matter. You, I mean, unless it's bedtime, of course, right? You can watch a movie whenever you want your kids like, Holy crap, you know? And I've seen this trend and I really like it. I think it's a really, really good idea because it gives your kid this freedom.
that like you can leave it in their playroom and you know nothing bad is going to happen. Absolutely no no holes. You want to talk about bulletproof this is bulletproof you know unless they find one of your DVDs right. You know it's bulletproof and I really really like it because I think keeping your kids off the internet and keeping them as innocent as possible for as long as possible is the best way to fight this. But the caveat there is you still need to have the conversations.
Conversations still need to be had. Because if you keep them off the internet completely in this way, and you think, well, I don't need to have these conversations, then when somebody shows them, it's like, holy crap. Like I said earlier, this Pandora's box has been opened, and your kid had no idea about it. Still have the conversations. But I do really like the idea. you talk about parents that don't want to spend this monthly stuff, because I mean the bark phone and all that stuff, you're paying monthly payments. It's a one time.
You know, you buy this old TV, you buy this old DVD, portable DVD player thing, and you buy DVDs, and you're done. For most fathers, that probably sounds like a great idea, because you don't have $15 a month coming out of your checking account. So if you're a father that doesn't want to do that monthly stuff, I highly recommend that. I think it's a great, great, great idea. And I don't think I could talk about it anymore. really, think I'm going to do it with my son. I think it's an awesome idea. So...
Christian Stanley (56:08.765)
That would be my recommendations.
Brett Ethridge (56:11.022)
Okay. Well, I, yeah, I like that a lot. It's, you know, again, it's, it's different solutions, I think, at different ages, certainly. As they're younger, that makes a lot of sense. Perry and I have talked a lot on this podcast about sort of the transition period, though, where especially as they're teenagers.
Our responsibility as fathers, I believe, is to empower our kids to be able to make really good decisions on their own. And so that's where these conversations coming in and preparing them and ensuring that they have the confidence that you talked about Stanley, that my daughter is confident enough. We talked about this when we talked about, you know, kind of the sex ed talk with our kids like.
I want my daughter to be so confident in who she is because of my relationship with her, a strong bond with her dad who loves her and she's, you know, she's not going to let a boy take advantage of her, you know, that type of thing. I want that to be built into her. And I think the same thing goes with pornography and honoring women. You know, I my kids to grow up honoring women and learning the right way based on how I relate to my wife that anything that's a little bit abnormal there just isn't appealing to them and so forth.
the ideal that we're striving towards, you the analogy we've used before is I can restrict.
access to candy and junk food all I want my own home if that's a value of ours but then if our kid goes to the sleepover at the neighbors and there are Cheetos and &Ms available and they binge on it, you know, I still want them to be able to make their own good choices when they're at their neighbors and so that's certainly still the danger with devices is we could restrict restrict restrict in our own home but I want to make sure that my kids when they do have access to their kids unrestricted cell phone as a teenager, they're not now seeing hey I have a golden opportunity
Christian Stanley (57:44.553)
Mm-hmm.
Brett Ethridge (57:59.15)
now to see all the things that I can't see at home. And that's again where the conversations are such an important part of what our responsibility is as fathers. As we wrap up this conversation, kind of the final thing I'd like to touch on a little bit and get your guys' perspective and thoughts on is what do we do? How do we handle it after the fact?
Perry (58:23.302)
Mm.
Brett Ethridge (58:23.7)
Ideally in a perfect world, we would be able to prevent them from seeing being exposed to pornography as long as possible. But we talked at the very beginning about the disparate statistics. We think they're not, but they are. And so what if we find ourselves in that eye-opening realization someday where we say, know what? I could have sworn that my kid had never been exposed.
but it turns out they have been. My wife's a part of a Facebook group called Parenting in a Tech World, and the number of similar stories to that that come out. I mean, she's constantly, we'll be sitting on the couch and she'll say, my gosh, listen to this. This woman is distraught beside herself because her nine-year-old, she just found out was exposed to such and such at a family member's house or a friend's house or whatever.
If that were to happen and you find out that your kids have been exposed, what do we do it on the back end? How do we handle it? How do we talk to them? How do we coach them through it? Do they need therapy? I think the tendency is to overreact, to be fearful. my gosh, my kid's been exposed. He's now not going to have a healthy marriage in 10 years. It doesn't mean that necessarily, but what do we do as fathers? How do we then parent our kids through a situation if we find out that they have been exposed?
Christian Stanley (59:42.088)
Yeah. So, and I'm going to cover a lot of ground in a very short amount of time right now. So if you find out that your kid has been exposed and this has not been a fight that you've already been fighting, congratulations, you're in the fight now and you have to fight. That's your only option. what I explained to parents and as they've been exposed, therapy is, you know, I would recommend if your child already goes to therapy would be a good idea.
Perry (59:58.748)
Hmm.
Christian Stanley (01:00:11.113)
to do stuff like that and be like, hey, you need to process what has been done to you if they have been involuntary or if they have sought it out themselves. But here's what I explained to parents. If your child is actively seeking out pornography and your child is watching pornography, they've been exposed, they're in their teenage years and they're watching it now, right? We've talked about a lot of young stuff. They're watching it. Here's what we have to understand as parents. First of all, parents, you have to take a deep breath and you have to step back and you have to get a plan.
Because the only way that you're gonna fight this is with a plan. Because if you come out with anger and you come at it with yelling, it's not gonna fix anything. And if anything, it's gonna push them further towards what is giving them happiness in this moment is that stuff, right? Because when you're addicted to something, especially something that is an upper-light pornography that raises you up, it deals with dopamine.
Right? So you have dopamine that is getting mixed in there and they're getting dopamine from this and they're not necessarily getting dopamine from you yelling at them. So you have to have, so that's going to make them want to seek that dopamine because it makes them happy. So we have to take a deep breath as a parent. And then here's what we have to do. Here's what I teach parents. When I'm in churches teaching these things, just to teach them, you have two things that you have to kill at this point. If your kids actively watch pornography, if they're addicted to pornography, whatever, you have to kill two things. Uh, and it's not the same thing. You have desire and you have habits.
Perry (01:01:35.44)
Hmm.
Christian Stanley (01:01:35.618)
And a lot of parents, I think, think that it's one thing. And they think if I just kill this one, if I take the phone, it's going to kill it. Or if I take the computer, it's going to kill it. You're just taking their method of doing it. They will find another one if they're addicted to it. I promise you. So you have to kill the desire and the habit. The desire, if you kill the desire by saying, this isn't good, guard your heart, and all the things we've talked about, and your child no longer desires it, the habit is still going to be there.
and you've got you have to deal with that and sometimes it takes therapy to deal with that but if you do not deal with the habit the habit will eventually kick start the desire again and vice versa so you have to deal with the desire and the habit kill both of them and don't think that it's just one thing so the way i explain people is to kill a habit you have to understand a habit and i know i know i'm i'm moving quick here
Perry (01:02:14.651)
Hmm.
Christian Stanley (01:02:29.789)
But so to kill a habit, you have to understand a habit. I recommend a really good book that parents could probably read. And it's good for your habits as well as a parent, but good for your to understand your child's habits. And it's not a Christian book. So, you know, don't come at me if this guy has done something crazy or whatever. But Atomic Habits, I don't know if you've heard of that book or read it.
phenomenal book on understanding habits and I read it when I started going into this internet safety stuff to understand more about the pornography addiction and my own looking back my own habits right so a habit you have your trigger basically you have what will trigger you to do it you have the craving and then you have the where you respond and you have the reward so you have to understand that those triggers for your child
You have to figure out what those are and they have to figure out what those are you have to get to a point where your child is wanting to fight this as well or nothing or It's gonna be a moot point Your child is going to basically just do later on down the line when they have some type of freedom They're just gonna binge like somebody who's been on a diet and they walk into a room of little Debbie's right and so and I know that's a weird way to explain pornography, but it's just that it is what it is so you have to get your child on on
Brett Ethridge (01:03:42.839)
Thank
Christian Stanley (01:03:50.334)
with fighting it and you have to get them to realize what their pattern is. So habit, a pattern, I call it pattern typically. You have to get them to realize what it is and you have to, here's what you have to do and this is scripture right here, you have to figure out what your triggers are for doing it and you have to cut them off. Cut them off aggressively. I don't care what it is. If your kid gets triggered to watch pornography from Instagram, congrats, you don't have Instagram anymore.
And this goes for adults as well, to any guy that's maybe going through this as well. Figure out what your triggers are. What is your pattern? Because it is, your habit is a pattern. You are getting triggered at certain times of the day, at certain areas of your house, doing certain things, and then you are craving. And if you are that person that you don't have the desire anymore, you're fighting that craving, and it's lasting this long time. And then eventually,
when you get a point of where you're alone or things like that, you're going to give into it. And then when you give into it, you have that reward of dopamine. But right after that reward of dopamine comes shame. And then the cycle repeats itself. what you have to, as a parent, I explain that if you have this sneaking suspicion that your kid might be addicted to pornography, but you don't really know, watch their habits because
you will be able to figure out if that, and it may not be pornography, could, Lord forbid, they could be addicted to something else, but if it's pornography, you watch for their, you will catch them in the craving and the reward section of that, right? There's four sections. You have the trigger, the craving, the response, and the reward. You will catch them and you will be able to recognize it in the, what did I, sorry, the craving and the reward.
And the reason for that is because the craving, your child will start off normal emotions and they'll be their normal self. And as soon as they get triggered by whatever it is, they will start craving. And that craving is gonna take them up on this wave and it's gonna make them extremely irritable. It's gonna make them where they don't wanna spend time with family. It's gonna make them where they are seeking more and more alone time because if they don't have the desire, they are trying to fight it.
Christian Stanley (01:06:08.455)
And so they think to be, they feel shame that they're even having to fight the temptation. Right? So they are removing themselves from friends. They're removing, like, you know, if your child goes to Wednesday night service at their church, they aren't as talkative as they normally are because, you know, they're craving and they go up on this wave where they're craving, craving, craving. They get more and more irritable. And then eventually they're going to...
If your child gets to a point where they crash back down and they're normal again, and all of a sudden they're wanting to eat at the dinner table again and wanting to watch a movie in the living room with family, they have given into their stimulus, whatever it is. Right? So you, if you watch that, you can catch that they'll, they'll feel that shame. And when they feel that shame, they want to reinsert themselves back into the family activities. And so, but then, right, starts again, they're going to get triggered again.
and then they're going to have this wave and they're going to get irritable, irritable, and then it's going to crash again. So it's the craving and the reward phase are where you can, as a parent without directly asking, asking your kid, you can pay attention and you can figure out if they're addicted to something in general, but pornography for sure. because it is the same thing every time they are going to seclude themselves. And then once they've given into it, they're going to feel shame. And then they're going to want to come back out of hiding.
and then they're going to get triggered again, it's going to happen again. So paying attention to those behaviors. In doing all of this, I study behavior a lot. I teach behavior a lot when it comes to these things because I think that's the best way that you can figure it out because not every child, 13, 14 years old wants to be honest with you. And I pray that your child is honest with you. But if they're not being honest with you, watch their behavior.
look for those things that I just talked about. And I know that's a lot in a little bit right here, but I do recommend if you want to learn a lot more about what I just said, atomic habits is a good start as a parent. It can make you understand your child's habits and then you can start to fight from an area of knowledge instead of an area of fear and it would be really good.
Brett Ethridge (01:08:21.358)
It's I mean, it's it's gold. I think you covered a lot of really important information in a short amount of time, and I think it's a good way to sort of wrap up this episode. The wave that you just described, I just had this aha moment because it's exactly what I have seen in in one of my sons, not related to pornography. It's not to say that there's not something there, but but I know what the I know what the deceitful action is.
And that wave you're just describing we see it play out over and over and over again So it's something we're we're dealing with that. I won't go into any specifics here, but but it's very very true When they're hiding something it's obvious, you know, and the shame piece definitely comes in I would suggest Also and Perry, you know open to any final thoughts that you may have on this as we wrap up this episode But I would just encourage men to pray as well. This is something that my wife and I do a lot
is, you know, if they've been exposed already, Lord, Lord, break it literally block the images in their mind, Lord.
I pray that it will not take root Lord. pray that this addiction will not take root Lord. I pray that I pray that you prepare now the wife that you have for my son that that any exposure now will not impact his ability to have a good life giving marriage in the future. Just whatever it is, whatever the the concern in your heart is after the initial shock of my gosh, I never thought this would be us.
I thought we had been doing everything right. And by the way, don't blame yourself, right? mean, again, there are thousands and thousands and thousands of really well-intentioned parents on some of these Facebook groups who are shocked to see what their kids have been exposed to because it's a really, really, really hard thing in today's world to keep our kids from being exposed to some of this stuff.
Brett Ethridge (01:10:13.996)
because of the nature of the internet and the interconnectedness of devices. It just is hard. So don't blame yourself. Don't beat yourself up. But after that initial shock, just really soul search and ask yourself, OK, what are you really concerned about here? Aside from the fact that, you know, my baby's innocence has been spoiled. That is true. That's a shame.
That's terrible. hate that. want to prolong that as much as possible in our kids lives. But now as you talked about Christian, okay, well, what do we do about it? It's time to plan. It's time to take action. And one of the actions we can take absolutely is one of our biggest weapons is prayer because I genuinely believe that the Lord can intercede here, can break the addictions, can literally block and cast out images that don't take root in their brains and prepare a better future for your kids. So, so press into that man because that is a weapon that you have.
of.
Christian Stanley (01:11:08.393)
like that. It's
Perry (01:11:09.402)
Yeah, I love that, Brett. That's a great final word, I think, for everybody to hold onto is lean into the Lord and pray.
Brett Ethridge (01:11:18.722)
Well, with that, let's wrap up this episode of the Faithful Fatherhood podcast. Christian, again, if people want to support you and what you're doing in the fight against human trafficking, where can they reach out to you, find more and connect with you and even support your ministry?
Christian Stanley (01:11:35.486)
Yeah, you can reach out to me on Facebook, Christian Stanley. No fake names. It's my name on Facebook. You can add me up, message me. We can talk. The Stanleys, our website is thestanleys.co.
You know, we can put that in the description, but stanley.co you can go and you can learn about our trainings and how to get us there. You can learn about who we work with, you can donate, you can pray, you can join our, we have a private Facebook group because we do work in anti-trafficking, so some of our prayer requests sometimes can't be shared to the public, so you can find our private Facebook group through our website as well. So a lot of different ways to get connected to us through that website.
Brett Ethridge (01:12:19.854)
And we'll put all of that and all the links that have been discussed in this episode in the show notes below. Christian, again, an incredible, I think, an important two-part series here. So, appreciate all the time and expertise that you have shared and just for the work that you're doing, we bless you and pray that you continue to be fruitful in the work that you're doing.
Christian Stanley (01:12:37.171)
see just frozen for me.
Perry (01:12:38.66)
No, he's frozen for me too. He went frozen and then like I looked at your screen and then you started moving too and I was like, well, right as we're wrapping it up, he went totally frozen.
Christian Stanley (01:12:48.941)
no.
Perry (01:12:51.75)
I'll see if I can send him a chat.
Christian Stanley (01:12:58.365)
I don't know how he normally wraps up. I could wrap up for him.
Perry (01:13:01.51)
Well, I think that it's probably recording on his end. You know what I mean? I think that's how Riverside does it.
Christian Stanley (01:13:12.945)
I hope we're not messing up his wrap up then. Good.
Perry (01:13:21.879)
he just disappeared. Is his screen still there for you?
Christian Stanley (01:13:26.845)
He's gone.
No, he's gone. Just you.
Perry (01:13:31.686)
Weird.
Christian Stanley (01:13:39.155)
So can he?
Perry (01:13:39.419)
He, I'm sure he can also just like record a, I'm sure he can record an outro as well. You know what I mean? Like he can go back just like you recorded the quote in the beginning. I'm sure he can record that exiting like, thanks for listening. Catch you next time. You know, all that stuff. So cool. Christian, thank you, brother. Appreciate your time, man. It's a really good stuff. It's an encouragement to me. It's an encouragement for me to, I'm going to download some of these things onto my phone.
Christian Stanley (01:13:47.774)
Yeah.
Christian Stanley (01:13:56.265)
Sounds good to me.
Perry (01:14:09.35)
And then probably download some of the preventatives on our kids' phones and then just circle back with a couple of my teenage sons that, you know, haven't had the...
pointed question of hey Son, what's up? Have you looked at any of this stuff lately? You know, know a couple of my kids have Gone down that dark rabbit hole and then circled back and gotten out of it and away from it, you know But it's not something I've asked him about lately. So it's a good encouragement to me As a father to just check in with my teenage sons and say hey What's up? How's it going with this? And if I'm not the guy you want to
talk to about it. have to have, you gotta at least have somebody that you're talking to about it. So yeah, it's a good encouragement for me, brother, big time.
Christian Stanley (01:14:54.257)
Right. Right. Yeah. Yeah, that's good. Yeah. And I told Brett this, I'll tell you this before we end here, but like, anytime you guys want me on the podcast, I'm down to and you know, any kind of conversations outside of this. mean, I, I think I think conversating instead of you because what I normally do is I go in and it's a set.
Perry (01:15:04.176)
Yeah.
Perry (01:15:11.814)
Sure. Yeah.
Christian Stanley (01:15:19.571)
hour and a half and I do this talking and people don't really have the conversation point. And so I, Brett's back. I was just telling Perry that anytime you guys want me, I would love to. I think the conversational aspect of this is really good for these particular topics and being a good spiritual.
Perry (01:15:20.676)
Right.
Perry (01:15:24.4)
Sure. Sure.
Perry (01:15:29.094)
Ayyyy!
Christian Stanley (01:15:48.891)
strong father. I like it. I like the message of the podcast. So
Perry (01:15:52.976)
Thanks brother, appreciate that.
Brett Ethridge (01:15:53.049)
Awesome. appreciate that. So the bad news is when I lost my internet, we lost the whole episode. So we have to start over from scratch. no, I'm just kidding. But I'm just...
Perry (01:16:02.594)
Sweet. I heard your bluff and your voice on that one.
Brett Ethridge (01:16:07.897)
Let me just let me just wrap this up. Obviously we'll be able to chop all this out So with that let's wrap up this episode of the faithful hot fatherhood podcast. I really appreciate you Christian this two-part series. It's been in depth I think it's been a really important conversation So again, thank you for sharing your time your expertise on these issues and we just bless you and your ministry and continue to get out there and fight the good fight man doing Doing good things in the world
Christian Stanley (01:16:37.481)
Thank you guys.
Brett Ethridge (01:16:38.269)
It says right trying to reconnect. it? Is it still on? Okay. So, so with that, thank you as always for supporting us for listening for subscribing and we will talk with you again on the next episode of the Faithful Fatherhood podcast. Take care, everyone. At least we got that in there. All right. So the good news is we got it on Riverside. So I'll be able to share all this stuff with you, Christian, and you can easily pull some snippets for social and all of that stuff. So.
Perry (01:16:42.736)
You're blurry, I mean, we can hear you. Yeah.
Christian Stanley (01:17:09.353)
Cool. So you said with Riverside, you said, like you're blurry to me right now, but you said like in the actual recording or whatever, you won't be blurry?
Brett Ethridge (01:17:20.633)
Correct. Yep. It renders it basically the way it works is it sort of is doing things on each of our individual computers almost on delay. So even if it looks blurry on ours, it's clear on each of our individual screens and then it brings it all back together and meshes it together in their cloud. I don't really know how it works. That's the way it's described, but it absolutely works. I had this one interview a couple of weeks ago that I was sure was going to be a disaster.
Christian Stanley (01:17:23.433)
That's cool, I like that.
Christian Stanley (01:17:44.414)
Interesting.
Brett Ethridge (01:17:50.241)
I mean, we were just blurry and it constantly seemed like it was freezing up and we just sort of muddled through and everything was perfectly clear and crisp and no delays, nothing on the back end when I went to edit it. So now I will say when I press stop.
Perry (01:18:02.662)
Yeah. Yeah, and mine's...
Brett Ethridge (01:18:07.992)
Yeah.
